Zelda Wiki:Discussion Center


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Featured Pictures
Has anybody looked at the featured pictures lately? It seems like the current nomination has reached a score of plus-5. Doesn't this qualify it as a featured picture? Infernap (talk) 18:16, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Page Idea
I know there's already a page for Zelda mythology here, but might it be worthwhile to put in a page for the real-life mythological allusions within the Zelda series? I did a similar project for Zelda Answers last year (which you can check out here if you'd like), so I'd have at least some material to put together what I think could be a workable page, and I'm sure other people could contribute to flesh it out. Does this sound worthwhile? Setras (talk) 02:03, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Im just going to be blunt: that article isn't very good. The article is a poorly organized mixture of historical insprirations and literary tools, sparcely dotted with actual real world mythology, with many assumptions and speculation. Zelda being a damsel in distress is not a mythological reference; damsels in distress are a common MacGuffin. The creation of Hyrule is an origin story? Never would have guessed. Making any article remotely similar to that on Zelda Wiki would not meet quality standards. Maybe you could make such a page on your user page, but not an article. Champion of Nayru (talk) 07:38, 3 November 2013 (UTC)Champion of Nayru
 * Well, I wasn't just going to copy the blog verbatim. I did it for a mythology class I had last year, so obviously some tweaking would be in order- it was just to illustrate what I had in mind. And actually yes, Zelda being a damsel in distress is a mythological archetype, hence my including it. The bulk of what would go into this hypothetical new article would be from the Allusions section anyway, and with other users contributing to it, it could be easily fleshed out (and in the event that it's not, then it could be deleted and thought of no more). Setras (talk) 13:07, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * There isn't a lot of point differentiating between mythological and mundane inspirations. Modern culture in general is heavily influenced by mythology, due to mythologies' inherant influence on their culture. Zelda being a damsel in distress is not a mythological reference, but a literary one. Damsels in distress are very common in fiction. Saying its a mythological reference is like saying that Ganondorf being evil is a reference.
 * If you're still set on making an article, do as such on a forum or on your user page. If it is acceptable, we can post it as an article. If not either abandon or fix it. If it looks anything like the article you posted, it will be rejected. Champion of Nayru (talk) 21:53, 3 November 2013 (UTC)Champion of Nayru


 * I think the subject has great potential as a wiki article in some form. There's no denying certain specific mythological references in the series: the ferry in the Shadow Temple and the river Styx, the Ancient Cistern and the Spider's Thread. These references are already noted on the respective pages. Many users might be interested in an article that synthesizes all such trivia.
 * The topic does rather encourage speculation, though. I'm afraid the article might end up being more opinionated than would be appropriate for a mainspace article.
 * I'm thinking this would reach its fullest potential as a WikiExclusive. That would give you more breathing room to make some more creative/speculative connections. 01:03, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I did consider that, but I kind of wanted it to be open-ended, so anyone could put it suggestions. Though, I suppose the Talk page would work for that. Setras (talk) 01:37, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I get that. The problem I see with it is, it would be an invitation to make comparisons that are speculative or otherwise unsuitable for the mainspace.
 * As a WikiExclusive, that headache would be avoided. If you would like it to be open-ended, I'm sure that could be arranged. 02:40, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I guess that would be best. I'll write up a starting draft at some point in the next few days, then! Setras (talk) 03:26, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

When are we gonna start adding content about the new A link between words?
The new Zelda seems to be a Gold this year, What have you heard about this video game?

Off topic, but yes of course we are working to add content to pages. Champion of Nayru (talk) 07:32, 22 November 2013 (UTC) Champion of Nayru

Tracking the Curse?
I was wondering, since it is confirmed that an "incarnation of my [Demise] hatred will haunt those with the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero", that it might be worthwhile to create a page to keep track of these incarnations. Demise is fairly easy to track, but I wonder whether it would be unreasonable to track Ghirahim as well. --TrueMasterSword (talk) 13:28, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean exactly, as the curse basically means Ganon, and Hyrule Historia pretty much implies that's almost all it means. Demise represents evil, and Demon King Ganon is the incarnation of that. There really isn't much else to track. I suppose Malladus might count? But that's not confirmed. 15:06, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

The thing that's bothering me is that Demise's Curse says it will haunt EVERY incarnation of Link and Zelda. Ganondorf or Ganon only cover some games. Also, I note that Ganon always appears with a powerful, magical undeling. I was just wondering if Ghirahim could be part of the Curse. --TrueMasterSword (talk) 15:32, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Ganon(dorf)'s magic ability is a result of the power he gains from the triforce of power, not because he is an incaration of GhirahimTriforceOfPower (talk) 18:59, 14 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Actually, Ganondorf does magic before getting the Triforce. But seriously, can we cut discussion about Demise's curse? We don't know how it works, or even if it's literal, but it is clear that it refers to Ganondorf. Anything else about the curse is pure speculation. Anyway, discussions of this sort belong on the Demise talk page. Champion of Nayru (talk) 19:46, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Pronunciations?
This has probably been discussed elsewhere, but numerous pages use pronunciation guides next to the name of the character. While I understand that these would exist for those characters who actually have had their names spoken out loud, such as Link, Zelda, Ganondorf and Sheik in Smash Bros., exactly where are the pronunciations coming from for other characters such as Agahnim, etc.? Are any of these legitimately sourced anywhere? Most of these names are Japanese in origin, so I'm not sure common American English practice has much merit in determining how these character names are pronounced, so most of these seem presumptuous at best, or completely made up at worst. Are they necessary? Can they be sourced anywhere, like from Nintendo Directs? 15:49, 18 January 2014 (UTC)


 * There was a previous discussion at Hyrule Castle, see here. SnorlaxMonster put forward that all pronunciations should be referenced or removed. Official sources would include commercials, in-game voice acting, dev interviews, and Nintendo Directs as you said.


 * If no one objects, I'll go ahead and add this into the Quality Standards. 01:42, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Image cropping
I think the purpose of image cropping on an image without background transparency is to make an image of an object look exactly the same as it would if the game itself were rewired in such a way that it had a white backgound. I'm pretty sure Majora's Mask works in such a way that all game pixels on any size emulator screen, no matter how close to the edge of the object are either completly affected by the the color of that part of the object or completely affected by the color of that part of the background, and does not work like a camera where the colour of a pixel is the average of colors in a square region of what the infinitely high quality image would have looked like. As a result, it's a very simple process to remove the background of an unmodified screenshot from an emulator because all you have to do is probably use Project 64 to make all background pixels white and all object of interest pixels the color they already were, as discussed at File talk:Fierce Deity Link 3D.png, and images of that form from 3D Zelda games should be granted an exeption to the 3rd sentence of the 6th bullet point of Zelda Wiki:Quality Standards. On the other hand, when an emulator screenshot is shrunk, there is no way to revert the image back to its original form and so there's also no way to use that image to create an image identical to the image that would have resulted from first removing the background then shrinking the image so we probably do the closest we can get to that by using a more complex image cutting porgram than paint that can cut lines through pixels rather than around the edges of pixels and cut so far in from the edge that no uncut or partly cut pixels were part object pixel and part background pixel. People are seeing unmodified eumlator screenshots all the time and if someone can put up with an original screenshot having jagged edges, then they should also be able to put up with an image that's the same except that it has a white bacground with jagged edges. It makes no sense for a Fierce Deity image to have super sharp edges inside the image, such as the top of the belt and yet have a blurry edge around the entire image. Furthermore, people when they're uploading images taken from a screenshot with a very large screen, if they're going to shrink it before uploading should be encouraged to crop the image first then shrink it, not the other way around. I think that transparent background of images smaller than the original emulator screenshot they were taken from or taken from a TV screen that has a different resolution than the game should work it such a way that it pastes in such a way that any pixel that's partly object and partly background after pasting becomes a weighted average of the colour that pixel was before using the image cutting program and the colour of the pixel that that pixel is pasted onto, if there even exists a program that can handle partly transparent pixels. When ever I paste any image from Wikimedia commons or Zelda Wiki that I have a way to tell has a transparent background by pasting into paint, every single time, it has a 1 colour background in addition to its background transparency and the background always pastes as black, even if I choose transparent selection unless I make black color 2. Does that mean there are images on Zelda Wiki that have a multi-color transparent background that paste into paint as though the background weren't transparent but paste into a different program with a transparent background? Blackbombchu (talk) 00:15, 4 February 2014 (UTC)


 * In principle, you're right about staying consistent. A sharp image should have sharp edges, and a smooth image should have smooth edges. Despite that, smooth edges are easier on the eyes and are simply more appealing, which is why they are preferred even when the inside of the image is sharp. As I understand it, the rules are talking about images with really jarring edges that are clearly a result of bad editing. If you can isolate the object from the background properly, I don't think there's a problem.
 * As for the color-transparency issue you're facing, that is a result of image compression. When an uploader compresses the PNG to reduce its size, some information is removed from the image. Some programs like paint will try to find the missing information, and since they can't find it, they produce an error with the background color. However, browsers tend to ignore the missing information and display the correct image. 13:06, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Proposal for Change
I have seen many pages that I feel do not represent the Zelda franchise but instead represent the Zelda fans. The BEN Drowned page is a fanfiction, it is a quality story, NOT quality information. The Shipping page seems more like a page for fan service, not information. I also see many theories with minimal support, like the Tetraforce for example, that have their own page.

I think that zeldawiki should provide QUALITY INFORMATION, not fan speculation (Shipping page for example) and services (BEN Drowned for example). I also do not think that theories deserve their own page but a mention on the page relevant to the theory (Like a Tetraforce mention on the Triforce page). This would help increase factual information on this wiki. I also think that theories must be supported by canon information before being allowed on the page. If you want to mention a theory, then the discussion page should be used as long as there is evidence from a canon source, but that would still not guarantee that your theory would be mentioned on the page.

My proposal's main points are:

1. No fanfictions of any kind on this site, even if they are popular with the Zelda community. Fanfictions do not provide accurate information, just a story.

2. Fan speculations should not be included on a page, and even if they are included on a page they should not have their own pages. Fan speculations might include canon information, but they usually have external meanings attached. If they deserve a mention I feel that they should be mentioned on a page relevant to the speculation.

3. Theories should have stricter guidelines for mentions on the page, but looser guidelines for mentions on the talk pages. Theories should be supported by CANON information (I know I am guilty of breaking this, but that doesn't change my opinion), and only with HEAVY support should they deserve a mention in the actual page (I understand some theories with minimal support are EXTREMELY popular and might deserve an exception to this rule, but in general theories should have heavy support). I believe that theories the HAVE support should be allowed to be brought up in relevant talk pages to be discussed more in order to either get support or to prove the theory wrong. If the theory is given enough support than an admin should be the decider for if the theory deserves a mention on the page or not.

I understand that this proposal might get rid of a lot of pages, but if we want a quality site with quality information than we might have to consider some of my points. Thank you to anyone that reads my proposal, and I hope that you at least consider it. Dark Mirror&#39;s Link (talk) 19:48, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Most of the pages you're talking about aren't advancing the speculative arguments, they're reporting on them. As seen on sites like http://tfwiki.net, covering the reaction to the official fiction can be both within the scope of a wiki, and informative. Personally, I don't think these pages should be deleted so long as they are treated as coverage of the fandom, and not as a soapbox to advance a fan theory, but I do think they should be moved to the Community: namespace.KrytenKoro (talk) 22:33, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Even if it is reporting on them the pages are still given partial credit. People that want factual information on Zelda (outside of walkthroughs, secrets, etc.) usually go to wiki sites. When people want reporting on shippings and theories they usually go to forums or YouTube. Why would we have reports on our wiki site? I understand that people might look this stuff up on a wiki site, but others might confuse certain reports for canon or ambiguously canon information, which is a bad thing for wikis that try and have as factual information as possible. A wiki should stick to facts while a forum usually has a lot of speculations. Sometimes it is a good idea to mix the facts with the speculations, but it is rare that it can be pulled off effectively. When making a wiki you cannot consider "The members of this wiki and the people I know know how to navigate this wiki and separate the facts from the speculation". That limits the number of people that can potentially use the wiki. You need to think, "How can the least intelligent people that might use this site be able to navigate it and separate fact from speculation". If you do that it opens the door to many more people getting more accurate information. It might seem like it affects those that already understand, but does it really? Those that would already understand also know how to find the information anyways, but those that do not understand might struggle. Dark Mirror&#39;s Link (talk) 22:58, 5 February 2014 (UTC)