Talk:Dark Rites

Sacred Flames
The differences between the two sets of flames that I put in before were just observations, and I'm not really seeing why they couldn't be put in. I wasn't trying to point out any kind of connection between them (for the record, I think the Dark Rite flames were created to counteract the Sacred Flames and may have played a role in forging Demise's Sword, but I know there's vitually nothing to support this idea, thus making it unfit for the article). And everything I said was true- in SS, Link had to strike three Goddess Crests and light the Sacred Flames to power up the Master Sword, which Zelda then had to bless to bring out its true potential, allowing the sword to be used against Demise; in OoX, Link had to stop the Dark Flames from being lit (which he ultimately failed to do), and Zelda was then kidnapped to be sacrificed to revive Ganon. These facts directly contrast one another, thus making the two sets of flames opposites. This may have been deliberate, or only coincidental, but it ultimately doesn't matter, since, again, I'm not theorizing any kind of connection- just pointing out a quirk of storyline. With this in mind, may I put the trivia back? Setras 03:37, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not an admin or anything, but the connection just seems really tenuous to me. Yes, that's what the Sacred Flames are, yes, that's what the Dark Rites are. But there's more different between them than similar: the Sacred Flames are already there, just need to be used, while the Dark Rites flames have elaborate rituals behind summoning them; the colors differ; Zelda in the Dark Rites is used only because she is "pure", not necessarily because she is Zelda. The Sacred Flames bear a lot more resemblance, as they are intended to, to the Pendants/Spiritual Stones/Goddess Pearls theme. I personally don't think that being "three multicolored flames" "makes" them opposites, any more than the flames involved in dungeon puzzles or used as bottle items would be. As such, if they're mentioned at all, I feel it should be in a "theories" or "see also" section that makes it clear that any resemblance is not obviously intended.KrytenKoro 14:16, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
 * My only input is that this would be regarded as a theory and not trivia. It's possible, I'll give it that, but it isn't confirmed. 11:04, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * But as I said before, I'm not proposing anything that would be theoretical. I think there is a connection between the different flames, but that's not what I was suggesting be put in the Trivia- I was merely trying to point out that, based on events that have been confirmed (having actually happened in-game), the two sets of flames can be regarded as opposites, because:
 * Link had to light the Sacred Flames, which he succeeded in doing; but prevent the Dark Rite flames from being lit, which he failed to do.
 * Zelda (as Hylia) was actively involved in using the Sacred Flames to create the Master Sword, and so defeat Demise; while the later Zelda was a helpless participant in using the Dark Rite flames to ressurect Ganon.
 * There's not enough here to establish any kind of theories on how the flames are connected, but as far as story goes, the two sets are activated and used in opposing ways, making them opposites in that regard. I'll put this under a Theory tag if you really think it should be, but again... it's not really a theory, just a story quirk. Setras (talk) 13:55, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * My first impression of that comparison is that it's complex and a bit of a stretch. I could take it or leave it, same as the trivia bullet that's there now.


 * It's a trinity. There's bound to be some coincidental overlap with other trinities in the series. You could relate it to just about any trinity if you tried hard enough. (In fact, I remember as a child, my devout grandmother once tried to convince that the Triforce was just a knock-off of the Trinity of Christian faith. Obviously this has no bearing on this discussion but... Does kinda prove my point. :P)  14:41, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * That they have any relavance to each other, in-universe, is the theory. Granted the flames are meant to be one-per-game in what was originally a trilogy planned around the goddesses, but if anything they seem to be opposites of the oracles/goddesses, not the sacred flames. I would personally feel super uncomfortable implying that the developers were thinking of the Oracle games when designing the Sacred Flames, unless we come up with a source.
 * As far as Zelda is concerned, the game is explicit that she is not personally necessary; they just need a pure vessel to do the rites correctly, but still succeed without one.
 * As far as theory goes, it's pretty easy to rewrite this as one. The flames are lit by defying the purpose of the Oracles who represent/possibly are avatars of the goddesses. Although it's not explicit, it's fairly easy to interpret the flames as the Zelda equivalent of the stereotypical upside-down cross, a kind of ultimate blaspheming of a religious symbol. So, as such a blasphemy, they would end up as dark mirrors to the Sacred Flames used to glorify the goddesses. You could even incorporate Zelda as being; where the goddesses goodness helped a holy goddess become a virtuous mortal in order to save the world, the profanation of their symbol makes a virtuous mortal into a dark god in order to destroy the world.KrytenKoro (talk) 14:53, 22 October 2013 (UTC)