User:Ice Medallion@legacy41965084

Hi there! I'm pretty new here, but I've been noticing places where I could help out, so here I am. I've played every Zelda game except the Oracle Series, Four Swords Adventures, and Phantom Hourglass, so I potentially have a lot to do here.

By the way, I came here from TV Tropes Wiki. It probably shows.

I'm currently using the space below to air thoughts I've had about this series. The sections are in order of increasing likelihood to be flame bait, so you can start reading at the top and go as far into the controversial stuff as you wish.

Trivia that's a bit too trivial for any of the main articles

 * I'm not sure how much of this was deliberate, but although it is a prequel to A Link to the Past and much of its design reflects that, Ocarina of Time also reuses a hell of a lot of elements from The Adventure of Link, especially in the adult section of the plot:
 * First and most obviously, it brings back an "adult" (meaning, as it usually does in this series, an older teenager) Link for the first time since that game.
 * By the same token, it brings back a visibly "adult" Zelda. (The Zeldas in The Legend of Zelda and A Link to the Past have ambiguous sprites and as far as I can tell don't have a canon age.)
 * As many fans know, all but one of the towns in The Adventure of Link have names that are reused for characters in Ocarina of Time, and all but one of these names are used for Sages in Ocarina of Time. Of course, in the internal chronology the towns are named for these people.
 * The adult phase of the game has six Sage Medallions, like the six crystals in The Adventure of Link.
 * The game reuses a number of enemies and bosses that hadn't been seen since The Adventure of Link, such as Dark Link, Volvagia, and the Iron Knuckle. (To be fair, the Iron Knuckles seen in The Adventure of Link look and act more like Darknuts, and the Japanese names of the Iron Knuckle and the Darknut imply that they are subtypes of the same enemy rather than entirely different enemies, but hey, they're hardly the only enemy to get a major redesign over the course of the series.)  Also, although it has a different name (in Japanese as well as in English), the Lizalfos is very similar to the Geru.
 * On the subject of enemies generally, both games have a significant number of "swordsman" enemies that can execute weapon techniques beyond just holding a weapon out and can actively block or parry Link's attacks, as opposed to their closest counterparts in A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening which behave somewhat more like their counterparts from The Legend of Zelda. Link himself is also able to fence to a much greater extent than he can in A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening.  Of course, 3D and a side-scrolling perspective both lend themselves to this more than a top-down perspective does.
 * The spells in Ocarina of Time have more in common with the spells in The Adventure of Link (a fire spell, a defense spell, and a mobility spell) than with the spells in A Link to the Past (similar number, and one of them is a fire spell, but they're all elemental offensive spells, although one of Quake's effects is similar to an effect of the Spell spell).
 * This was the first time that specific parts of the Triforce were mentioned since The Adventure of Link, and therefore the second time in the series that the Triforce of Courage appeared as a distinct entity and was associated with Link.
 * All of the main dungeons in the second phase of the game are called "temples", as were the dungeons in The Adventure of Link in Japanese.
 * Ocarina of Time featured the largest overworld that had been seen since The Adventure of Link, a game that itself has a large overworld by this series's standards.
 * The Hover Boots and the Iron Boots both have a similar function to the Boots in different ways. The former allows one to walk over obstacles (pits in the case of the Hover Boots, water in the case of the Boots), while the latter grants access to areas blocked off by water (underwater in the case of the Iron Boots, across water in the case of the Boots).
 * Horses appear in Ocarina of Time for the first time since The Adventure of Link, although in the latter they only appeared as mounted or horselike enemies (Rebonakku and Horsehead).
 * The Carpenters introduced in Ocarina of Time look a lot like one of the generic male NPC sprites (the type used for Error) in The Adventure of Link.
 * I see The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess as counterparts in many respects aside from their timeline placement. The latter reuses many elements from the former:
 * Obviously, both are the first time since OoT in their timelines that a Link has met Ganondorf.
 * The Ganondorf battles are similar in the two games, with Ganon fighting Link in beast form at first and then shifting to his Gerudo form for a final sword fight. Both battles involve Zelda at some point.  Both of the sword fights require Link to use a specific sword technique to win.
 * Both have a race of birdlike people (the Rito in TWW, the Oocca in TP), albeit with very different story roles.
 * Both use the exact same Rupee system, a relative rarity in this series even though the values of the green, blue, and red Rupees are generally consistent between games.
 * Both include a process for making ChuChus into Chu Jelly, which has not appeared in any other game.
 * Many design elements and puzzles in the dungeons are reused:
 * TP's Forest Temple is extremely similar to TWW's Forbidden Woods. Both have similar, half-open-cave-made-of-trees aesthetics (more so than many other forest dungeons, e.g. OoT's Inside the Great Deku Tree and Forest Temple) and background music, have the Boomerang as their unique treasure and make use of it to cut vines, have wind-based puzzles including the use of wind to move gondolas and spin weathervanes (TP merging the wind-generating function of the Deku Leaf into the Boomerang), and have a variant of the Deku Baba as a boss.
 * The Temple of Time has many similarities to the Tower of the Gods. Both are holy locations that make extensive use of the glowing-lines aesthetic, introduce Armos and Darknuts, introduce a means of remotely controlling objects and statues that can be controlled thus, feature a scale puzzle, and have electric hazards.
 * Both have dungeons that use a strange-colored fog as an obstacle that disables Link (by jinxing him in TWW and by turning him into a wolf in TP) and can be cleared by light (reflected sunlight in TWW and the light of the Sols and the light-infused Master Sword in TP).
 * Both have a wind-themed dungeon whose treasure is a Hookshot-like item (the Wind Temple with the Hookshot in TWW, and the City in the Sky with the Double Clawshots in TP) as the final "regular" dungeon before confronting the antagonist (although, due to Zant's relation to Ganondorf, TP has a true final dungeon after the false one that is the Palace of Twilight).
 * Both feature Hyrule Castle itself overrun with Ganon's minions, as a small area that furthers the plot in TWW and as a full dungeon in TP.
 * Both have a linear, vertical mini-dungeon based around fighting most of the non-boss enemies in the game in succession (the Savage Labyrinth in TWW, and the Cave of Ordeals in TP). Both have "breather" floors, and both have a group of Darknuts on the final floor.
 * Many enemies are similar between the two, keeping the different art styles in mind:
 * Both games use Bokoblins as common enemies, and up until Skyward Sword were the only games to do so.
 * Although the method of killing them is different, the Armos in both games resemble the statues that can be animated in the Tower of the Gods and the Temple of Time (see dungeon comparison above).
 * Both feature Kargaroks and have them used as mounts or transports for other enemies. These have never appeared in any other games.
 * While not actually the same enemy, Zant's Hands resemble TWW Floormasters, especially when emerging from the glowing seals on doors.
 * Both games have an enemy that cannot damage Link but slows him down by sticking to him (Morths in TWW and Poison Mites in TP).
 * Both have a mail carrier as a prominent character that reappears many times in the story and have Link receive mail regularly.
 * Both have a bottled item that fully heals Link and temporarily doubles his attacking power (Elixir Soup in TWW, Great Fairy's Tears in TP).
 * Both have a telescope item, although TP's (the Hawkeye) resembles a mask rather than a traditional telescope.
 * There are numerous instances of reused music between the two games:
 * The musical sting for receiving Rupees from a treasure chest is the same.
 * The shop music is the same basic tune in both.

My headcanon and speculative gap-filling, not that anyone cares
This is, of course, all in fun. I recognize that I'm probably thinking about a lot of this stuff to an even greater extent than the creators did and that these things were not actually what they intended. But I figure that as long as they aren't actually contradicted by canon, I may as well fill in the empty spaces in canon with ideas of my own.


 * In the Child Timeline, the only timeline where Link continues to exist after the events of OoT (he leaves the Adult Timeline to change history, and he dies young in the timeline leading to ALttP), Link marries Malon. Saria probably is attracted to him, but since he's an aging mortal human and she's a non-aging and probably immortal forest spirit, it just wouldn't work.  The events leading to Link's engagement to Ruto never happen since he changed history.  Zelda is royalty and therefore not free to marry whomever she chooses, and besides that Link's having saved Hyrule and being the holder of the Ocarina of Time is presumably a state secret, so his importance as a protector of the kingdom can't be recognized in any way by, say, making him a member of the nobility.  Link probably never even meets Nabooru, age issue aside.  Meanwhile, Malon is obviously into Link, and her father likes him enough to (jokingly, but apparently only because he's still too young) offer Link Malon's hand in marriage.  Malon is the logical future spouse for Link.
 * Zelda removes the original "spirit of the hero" (i.e. the element of Link that keeps reincarnating into new Links) from the Adult Timeline when she sends Link back to change history. Rather than dying and thus making reincarnation possible, Link simply vanishes without a trace. This is why no Link appears when Ganon breaks free from the Sacred Realm between OoT and TWW.  This is also why multiple local deities and other savvy characters say that the Link in the TWW is not the chosen hero; he is not part of the original chain of Link reincarnations.  Instead, he earns his chosen hero status anew over the course of TWW.
 * The reason why various monsters (e.g. almost all the 'blins) follow Ghirahim and Ganon no matter how badly it seems to go for them is that, as the primordial source of monsters, Demise is their creator deity.
 * Unlike Hylia or the various local deities (e.g. the Great Deku Tree), the goddesses Din, Nayru, and Farore don't actually care who's running the world or what its residents do to each other, so long as it continues to exist. This is why the Triforce works the way it does.

The Hyrulean Civil War: Speculation Galore

 * First, it was a war between Hylians, Gerudo, Zoras, and Gorons that the Hylians won after a very protracted and bloody struggle. Because why the hell not?  It would be the most epic conflict in the entire series.  Also, it makes sense, since the Gorons and Zoras both have kings of their own, are allied with the King of Hyrule, are treated as part of Hyrule and seem to treat him as supreme, and at the same time seem a bit suspicious of Hylians.  The Gerudo, on the other hand, kept fighting the Hylians for longer and sustained the heaviest casualties of all, and as a result got stripped to a sliver of their former numbers, remained cut off from trade with other lands, and were possibly limited to a smaller, less hospitable area than what they once had (think Indian reservations in the USA).  At the time of OoT, they are (as far as anyone outside of Ganondorf's inner circle can tell) trying to make an uneasy peace treaty with Hyrule out of desperation due to lacking the resources (and male Hylians to breed with) to survive, thanks to their heightened isolation and the embargo.
 * The Gerudo's inability to peacefully seek mates among the Hylians due to the long civil war, which due to their peculiar biology they need to do, led to their abducting male Hylians and their developing a reputation as a race of brigands. (Note that they have a completely different reputation in FSA, after relations with the Hylians have had centuries to improve.)
 * The Kokiri were a neutral faction in the war because they're fairly isolated and they have no way to fight an army. Their area is also largely worthless to any of the factions involved thanks to its harmful magical phenomena.  This is also why Link's mother is driven there to avoid the fighting and abandons her child to the Deku Tree.
 * The Stalchildren in Hyrule Field are the restless spirits of innocents killed in the war, which at the beginning of OoT wasn't very long ago. They don't show up seven years later because time has eased their grudge, or alternatively because the Poes, the spirits of hatred generated by Ganondorf's rule, have frightened them into not manifesting anymore.
 * Relatedly, the Shadow Temple is associated with some seriously vile atrocities that happened during the war, and possibly not just then. (Seriously.  It's filled with torture and execution devices, there are rooms literally lined with human skeletons from floor to ceiling, and the talking skull-walls say things like "Here is gathered Hyrule's bloody history of greed and hatred".)  The Poes in the graveyard near the temple, the various undead in the well, the Royal Family's Tomb, and the Shadow Temple itself, and that thing that comes out of the well and presumably becomes Bongo Bongo are all derived from the concentrated evil (and vast body count) of said atrocities, since this place was apparently where the all the results of Hyrule's dirty work were hidden.

Ganon: Despite their best efforts, he actually has a character arc

 * Why Ganondorf is the way he is in OoT:
 * As per Gerudo tradition, Ganondorf was told from birth that he was a chosen one destined to be a god-king. He was raised by 400-year-old witches (probably because he was to be the king) who had long memories of all that the Gerudo had suffered at Hylian hands.  During his childhood and adolescence, he saw his people slaughtered and driven back into the hellish desert, and forced to become a nation of thieves, stealing resources and abducting men in order to prevent themselves from dying out.  The brutal desert winds he refers to in TWW are both the tip of the iceberg and a symbol of the death, horror, and injustice the Gerudo endured when Ganondorf was growing up.  So by the time he's a young man, he is convinced that he is a chosen hero destined to bring justice to the kingdom that brutalized his people.  And as a chosen hero, clearly he should use the ultimate power granted by the gods to right history's wrongs.
 * And to be fair, he IS a chosen hero: Demise's.  Although he doesn't know it, he is a pawn whose life plays out the way it does in order to enact Demise's curse.  History, his upbringing, and his nature conspired to make him into a weapon of Demise's vengeance.
 * What happened during Ganondorf's seven-year rule:
 * Once Ganondorf had the powers granted to him by the Triforce of Power, the royal family were all assassinated or driven into hiding, Link was sealed away in the Sacred Realm, and Ganondorf could legitimately show that he held a piece of the will of the gods, there wasn't much hope of stopping the coup. Ganondorf seized power in the capital without too much struggle.  Honestly, given all those who probably hated the King and Ganondorf's visible possession of a holy artifact, there were probably a lot of people who initially welcomed the coup even though he was a Gerudo.
 * Ganondorf had had no experience in actually ruling anything of any complexity, though, least of all a huge country made of factions that didn't like each other much and had only recently stopped trying to kill each other. Relations between the factions broke down in fairly short order, and the Gerudo were still seen as invaders on top of that.  Small rebellions kept popping up all over the place, especially among peoples (the Kokiri, the Gorons, and the Zoras) who remembered his attempts to intimidate them into giving him their Spiritual Stones, and getting increasingly desperate to preserve his rule and finish what he started, Ganondorf got increasingly paranoid and trigger-happy.  (This is probably where that lava moat came from.)  This eventually escalated to outright Sudan-esque genocide against the species most suspected of harboring traitors.  He first cursed Zora's Domain with unnatural cold to kill off the Zoras (which reduced Zora's River to a trickle and caused ecological disaster and famine) and later on, when the Gorons and the Kokiri rebelled shortly before Link exits the Sacred Realm, he began to systematically kill them off (i.e. the huge monsters all over Kokiri Forest and feeding the Gorons to a revived Volvagia), saying that this was the reward traitors should expect.  The Hylians most likely to remain loyal to him during this period were those who hated the non-humans the most to begin with, while others lost faith in him more and more.  At some point before the Goron and Kokiri purges, he went overboard during an attempt to quell an uprising in Castle Town and left the town in ruins, with much of the population dead and the survivors having fled to Kakariko.  Rather than trying to rebuild, he decided to just raise the dead and use them as guards to keep any other rebels out.  At this point not much of the population saw him as the rightful ruler anymore, but there had been so much death that no one was willing to oppose him.
 * It's interesting to note that when Link appears in the future, no Gerudo seem to have moved into Hyrule proper, remaining in the desert just as they were seven years ago. Given the sentiments expressed by Nabooru, it's possible that at this point most of them have rejected him, and Hyrule looks even worse than the desert.
 * By the time Link appears, Ganondorf's kingly aspirations and resolve had turned to bitter hatred for the land he wanted to give to his people and the grim knowledge that if things continued as they were he was doomed to die the most despised tyrant in history. But he thought that if he were able to recover the full power of the gods, he could just make a wish and fix everything.  He could become the god he was raised to believe he was, poof away all the dissidents or make them love him, and end up the king of a paradise rather than a blood-stained, ruined kingdom.  Above all others he hated Zelda for disappearing and denying him this power.
 * When Ganondorf breaks out of the Sacred Realm in between OoT and TWW, he "rules" as an unstoppable ancient horror that everyone is too scared to fight, especially since the gods have apparently decided not to bring back the legendary hero that stopped him centuries ago. As much as he might want to be a good king, he is now an unholy monster from the history books, and as he discovers, the people of Hyrule would literally rather have Hyrule destroyed than surrender it to this devil.
 * This is the key difference between Ganondorf in the Adult Timeline and Ganondorf in the Child Timeline: In the Adult Timeline he has had to run a kingdom, failed, and gone from being a chosen hero worshipped by his people to an apocalyptic demon despised by all except Demise's spawn. By the time of TWW, he has also experienced considerably more subjective time in the Light World than he has in TP.  He is visibly much older in TWW, having risen again by some means years ago and having searched in vain for that era's Zelda for most of that time.  The Ganondorf of TWW is a world-weary, hardened, bitter man obsessed with the past and consumed by the idea of finally reuniting the Triforce and righting ancient mistakes, and he is losing hope that this can ever be done.  The "I suppose" in his conversation with Link and Zelda implies that he is starting to forget who he even was all those subjective decades and objective centuries ago.  When King Daphnes denies him the Triforce again after he finally completes it, and thus extinguishes his last flicker of hope to be something other than the monster he has become, Ganondorf snaps.  His insane laugh and the drawing of his swords herald the final crushing realization that Hyrule and all his dreams tied to it are lost forever and that he is doomed to die a demon, the enemy of the world.  His rage and spite fuel his final attempt to ensure that at least the ones who have caused him this final indignity will die with him.
 * On the other hand, in the Child Timeline, the Ganondorf we see in TP is still largely the same cocky, arrogant man we see early in OoT, because since his plan in OoT was undermined and he was forcibly sent to the Twilight, he never saw his grand design for Hyrule be carried out and then fail catastrophically. He's quite vengeful after spending a long period as a spirit in the Twilight, and after all that time he may have lost sight of his original goal to some extent, but he still thinks quite highly of himself and his plans, and the weariness and cynicism of TWW Ganondorf would be quite foreign to him.  Ganondorf in TP has never had to run a country or watch his dreams turn to ruin, and he sits on the throne of Hyrule as if he's acquired a new toy.  There's a cruel pleasure in the way he greets Link with "Welcome to my castle."
 * I can't really add anything concerning what he's like in FSA, as it's the only game in the series whose ending I haven't seen and this wiki doesn't say much about his appearance in that game beyond his basic story role and how the fight with him goes.
 * And then there's the Downfall Timeline. I don't have much to say about Downfall Ganon, but I notice that he never takes a humanoid shape after OoT in that timeline.  (Agahnim doesn't count.  If he did, Ganon wouldn't need to escape into the Light World in the first place, since he'd already be there.  Agahnim is an empty shell Ganon uses as a tool.)  I'm not sure why that is, but it's food for thought.  (Obviously, in the external chronology it's because most of the games in that timeline are from before Ganon's Gerudo form was designed, although the idea was there as early as ALttP.)  Also, since he's brought back as a mindless beast thanks to Twinrova's botched sacrifice in the Oracle series, I wonder if any of that carries over into the Ganon we see in TLoZ?  In a game that, while sparse on dialogue, does have some crude "cutscenes" and gives lines to Moblins and Goriyas, Ganon never says a word and can be heard roaring animalistically from rooms adjacent to his chamber.  Maybe he's been permanently altered as a result of that mistake.  Hell, maybe, even though Ganon's essential as the holder of the Triforce of Power, someone else (those Wizzrobes that are all over the place in Death Mountain Labyrinth?) is actually doing the strategizing.  (Yeah, yeah, I know, stuff they couldn't possibly have intended when they made the game.  There's still nothing saying it can't be true now.)

Oracle Series

 * Twinrova may just be yet another case of people being echoes of other people from the distant past in this series, but since in OoT they say they're around 400 years old and imply they expected to live a great deal longer than that, it's quite possible that in the Downfall Timeline the original Twinrova were never killed and these are the same ones.

The Minish Cap

 * The Light Force is most likely Hylia's essence within Zelda. I realize the intro says the Minish gave it to the Hero of Men along with the Picori Blade, but it also says they descended from the sky.  And we've seen in cases like TWW that, just as in our own world, the events of the past can become distorted into legend.  With the current master chronology at our disposal, it seems simplest to interpret the legend seen in the intro as an amalgam of the origin of the Picori Blade and the origin of the royal line of Hyrule, possibly including Zelda's descent from Skyloft.

Spirit Tracks

 * Since Ganon is a statue at the bottom of the sea with the Master Sword stuck in his head, and even were he to be brought back somehow, the land he wanted to rule is gone, the Triforce has been forgotten, and that age's Link and Zelda are on an entire other continent from where he is, maybe Demise's curse transferred over to a replacement. Malladus does look awfully old-school-Ganon-like when he possesses Cole.  Maybe those who carry out the curse tend to develop a similar appearance.

My opinions

 * I really don't care whether Sheik in OoT is male or female under that outfit. And neither Super Smash Bros. nor the OoT manga constitutes anything resembling proof.
 * I very rarely care about shipping. (The statement about Link and Malon in the headcanon section is just because all of the other options can't realistically happen in canon.  This, of course, doesn't mean I mind seeing the others appear in fan works.)
 * Ganon's cool, but I love this series's alternate villains and would like to see more games with new non-Ganon antagonists, especially if they don't get hijacked by Ganon. Another game with Vaati could also be good.
 * Link's Awakening is underappreciated. It is hands down the best original Game Boy game and one of the better games even in this all-star series.  For a whole bunch of little reasons.
 * I do not consider the various grunts and cries Link makes in OoT and some subsequent games (including the GBA remake of ALttP) to be an improvement. I understand that it's tempting to add some sort of sound to even small, normally silent actions in a video game, but the vocalizations are irritating and don't add anything.
 * There are no bad main-series Zelda games. None.  The worst game in this series is still a significantly above-average game overall.
 * I was surprised by the timeline unveiled in the Hyrule Historia (both that they ever officially stated a timeline, and that there were three timeline branches instead of two), but for the most part I like it. It honestly makes more sense than any two-branch scheme I'd come up with or seen from other people.  I'm still wondering why Four Swords Adventures is in the Child Timeline, but I suspect that will become clear when we get a more thorough translation of the HH or the book comes out in English.
 * Gannon-Banned is hilarious.
 * Currently jockeying for the title of coolest item in the series: the double Clawshots and the Beetle.
 * As much as I like the Rito in other respects, their stated descent from the Zoras is bizarre and inexplicable, especially since the species of Zoras the Rito descend from have been seen living in both freshwater and saltwater and the other variety of Zoras have apparently survived. The Kokiri-to-Korok transition makes a bit more sense, since the Kokiri are implied to be elemental spirits of the forest and therefore they probably change along with changes to the forest and the Great Deku Tree.  The humanoid-with-fairy form is just their incarnation during the era of OoT.
 * One of my pet peeves is distinctions or classifications fans make that are artifacts of the translation. There's nothing in particular that all of the dungeons in the Palace article have in common, for instance.  They just happened to end up with the same word in their names in English, often for very different reasons.  By the same token, the Desert Temple in FSA was probably originally intended to be the same place as the Desert Palace in ALttP.  (It might not be now, given FSA's timeline placement, depending on whether the Desert Temple is supposed to have existed during the era of OoT but just not been visited or whether it is supposed to have not existed during that era.)
 * It looks to me like Capcom didn't make much of an effort to make the plots of their Zelda games fit into what Zelda continuity there was at the time. (This should not be taken as a general statement about the quality of the Capcom games; I quite enjoy FS and TMC, and while I haven't played the others they all look fun.)  They do fit into the HH timeline well enough, but those games do seem to have more continuity issues than the others.  From what I can tell, FSA is especially bad about this, and was so even before we got the HH timeline.
 * Tingle gets a bad rap.
 * The Philips CD-i games appear to be genuinely awful (and no, it's not just the embarrassing cutscenes; from what I understand the gameplay is buggy as hell), and they certainly don't belong anywhere in canon, but at times I'm glad they exist. They give us something to laugh about as a community and they help to keep us from taking this stuff too seriously.

Contributions

 * Tadtone
 * Pumpkin
 * Goddess Crest
 * Water Fruit
 * Green Potion