Talk:Yuga

Is it okay to point out the obvious resemblance to Ganondorf?
Because the Hilda page seems to point out the obvious as well. Dekler (talk) 20:31, 13 October 2013 (UTC)


 * No, that is pointless. Let the readers notice the similarities and think for themselves. The resemblance is not even that obvious. Champion of Nayru (talk) 00:22, 14 November 2013 (UTC)Champion of Nayru


 * I say we wait until the release to see how far the similarity extends. And this case is rather different. Hilda is Zelda's counterpart; Yuga doesn't seem to be Ganondorf's counterpart.  00:37, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Is it ever officially confirmed that Yuga is Ganondorf's counterpart? He does wield the Triforce of Power (through Ganon), but I don't remember that ever being said. It sounds more like a theory than anything.~.:NasiDe:.~ 10:29, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It's never stated that Hilda is Zelda's counterpart, or that Ravio is Link's counterpart, it's just incredibly likely, same applies here.--LordM (talk) 13:46, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

What I Think about Yuga
Some of you have noticed the resemblance to Ganondorf (Especially the OoT design). I think that Yuga is the Lorule version. Since Lorule is basically the opposite of Hyrule, and Princess Hilda is almost the opposite to Zelda, so obviously, Lorule is an alternate universe.

Just a thought.

Just a thought, do you think Yuga is a corrupted/traitorous former servant of Hylia? He serves one he calls "Her Grace", just like Hylia.--Krystal (talk) 00:03, 14 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Zelda Wiki is not the place for speculation. Try discussing this on a forum. Champion of Nayru (talk) 00:22, 14 November 2013 (UTC)Champion of Nayru

Gender
I haven't played the game yet, but right now the him being male is sourced to an Eiji quote. The reason I don't find this to be a reliable source is because it's not explicity said he is male there, it's just the male pronoun he is used, and the problem with that is the Japanese language lacks gender completely, so if it was a translation the gender would have been forced in, and if it was in English there is a possibility he misspoke. Can someone who has played the game confirm the gender, and if it's still true can a more direct, in the very least in-game, source by referenced instead? 11:12, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Like this quote: "I don’t think he’s a Gerudo. I think perhaps the designers were a bit influenced by the art from past games. One of things we did with him, actually, was to make him a little bit ambiguous gender-wise, whether he’s a man or a woman. Having the longer hair and all. He also actually sings in the game.” — Eiji Aonuma, is actually relevant as it directly addresses gender, but it's still a bit ambiguous to whether he is male or gender ambiguous. Is there anything in the game that out right confirms it one way or another?

Race
Why is Yuga's race specified as Gerudo? Aside from people making resemblance comparisons to Ganondorf, there is nothing that confirms him as a Gerudo, most especially because he lives in Lorule. I would think that he would be a Lorulan or Lorulean. ~.:NasiDe:.~ 06:14, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree wholeheartedly, removing it from the article. Dekler (talk) 14:26, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

A compromise
Can we add a trivia section saying he has a remarkable resemblance to Ganondorf rather than mucking around with a "counterpart" sidebar? His resemblance is obviously not a coincidence so it deserves a mention, but when push comes to shove he's not a colorswapped Hyrulian like Ravio or Hilda so we can't just call him a counterpart. Dekler (talk) 12:24, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Or we could have a theory section, we could even include the part about him possibly being a Gerudo in that.--LordM (talk) 13:08, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really need to be trivia. Wait for the synopsis to be updated and you will see.KrytenKoro (talk) 14:36, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm opposed to mentioning it in the main article. Not only is the skin thing bogus, their statures are also completely different. Ganondorf has a distinct olive skin, he's twice the size of an adult Link and built in a very broad, muscular way. Yuga's skin is far lighter, he's less tall and far more effeminate in his build and mannerisms. Those differences alone make his role as a Lorulean counterpart an uncertainty at best, and uncertainties do not belong in the main article.Dekler (talk) 13:35, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Creepy evil dudes tend to look alike. Yuga may actually be a coincidence. Malladus on the other hand is obviously a reference. Champion of Nayru (talk) 17:38, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

More Ghirahim than Ganondorf.
I wrote a rather large piece right here and it's not doing all that bad. Everyone who insists that he's Ganondorf's counterpart, read this first, then decide. Also, I'm requesting this be added to the theory section if it garners enough support. Dekler (talk) 19:13, 30 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Finally, I thought I was the only one who believed that Yuga and Ghirahim are so similar, in every way. But Yuga was so much like Ganon and Agahnim, both seeking the Triforce, also betray the trust of a Hyrulean princess -- a Lorulean princess for that matter? And to support Yuga being the counterpart of Ganon and being Ghirahim reborn, a master and a Sword Spirit are supposed to one, right? But this time, Yuga ("Ghirahim Reborn") completely had control over Ganon ("Demise Reborn"), or they are actually two halves made whole? It's possible they just became a newborn beast together or Ganon was the one in control.


 * I should also say, the Zelda series make everything so complicated when they leave something that connects everything unexplained and unspecified...


 * Yeah, I kind of support this theory too.--Prince Ludwig (talk) 19:36, 30 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Has anyone thought to consider that Yuga is simply another baddie, with no connections to previous villains? Why do people look to find connections where there is none? Let people come to the their own conclusion on similarities between characters. Champion of Nayru (talk) 19:47, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

No, we haven't considered it. We don't leave them as just mere coincidence. This still leaves... unresolved mysteries. After everything we've seen in the new and old Zelda games, yeah, there's no doubt that a Zelda game is highly connected to the other, just as Yuga and Ganon are connected -- canonically. But to Ghirahim, it's a possibility because of their character. A Link Between Worlds actually has many references from Skyward Sword, so we considered every theories that are plausible instead of leaving them as coincidences.--Prince Ludwig (talk) 19:59, 30 November 2013 (UTC)


 * As a rule of thumb, if you have to use the word "possible," it is not a theory. Theories are well established and highly probable, if not borderline confirmed. Anything else is simply unsupported speculation. Sure it is possible that Mario came from Hyrule. Probable? No. Is it possible that Link is a homosexual? Maybe, but there is zero evidence suggesting that. For something to be added as a theory, there needs to be significant evidence promoting it. And yes, I know we currently have theories on this wiki that do not meet the quality standards, and we are working to remedy that. Champion of Nayru (talk) 20:28, 30 November 2013 (UTC)


 * As a rule of the actual rules, in terms of citing sources for theories, official statements from Nintendo and/or forums that show incontrovertible support for said theory are both valid. I posted my theory on a reputable forum with heavily-backed research and general response seems to be a thumbs up. I'd appreciate it if we stopped comparing every theory to a gay Link theory. Dekler (talk) 00:54, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

You're not thinking we're going too far, aren't you?--Prince Ludwig (talk) 20:54, 30 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Considering that counterparts look near identical in the Zelda universe, Yuga really doesn't seem like one to anyone. Different size, different powers, different hair, different clothes. If Yuga was just a minor character, no one would really think of him as Ganon's counterpart; Hilda and Ravio would be noticed immediately. So yes, any discussion on speculative theories is too much for me. Champion of Nayru (talk) 21:12, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Then Yuga's personality and design makes him a combination of Ganondorf and Ghirahim. About Yuga being so much like Ghirahim, Eiji Aonuma also said he's close to Ghirahim.


 * I think you really should brush up on your reading comprehension skills; Aonuma just said he has a tremendous ego like Ghirahim. That in no implies implies that he is very similar to Ghirahim, just that they have large egos. If he takes inspiration from Ganon and Ghirahim, why even bother with listing Yuga as a counterpart? A character can't be a counterpart for two characters? Besides, the other counterparts look like the source material: Link and Ravio, Zelda and Hilda. Yuga does not invoke Ganondorf in the same way as the others. Champion of Nayru (talk) 08:16, 1 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree, the main goal of my theory was to throw a wrench into the idea that Yuga was designed as a counterpart to Ganondorf.

Because Yuga is so much like Ganon. Yeah sure, he has tremendous ego like Ghirahim. At least, that alone makes him very similar to Ghirahim. But Ghirahim is a Sword Spirit and existed thousands of years ago before A Link Between Worlds, so he can't be a counterpart to Ghirahim. But to Ganondorf, most likely. Some people see that, some people don't. It doesn't matter a counterpart is similar to another character.--Prince Ludwig (talk) 09:17, 1 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Ganon is a Demon King and existed, originally as a Gerudo with round ears instead of Yuga's pointy ones, thousands of years before A Link Between Worlds.Dekler (talk) 00:54, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of Ravio and Hilda, they are the opposite of Link and Zelda, just as Yuga is the opposite of Ganon. The Lorulean counterparts of Link, Zelda and Ganon have the same personalities and would've been the exact same if they still had the Triforce of Lorule in existence, even Zelda realized out she would have been the same as Hilda if the Triforce of Hyrule seized to exist with the Kingdom of Hyrule remained corrupted for ages at the end of the game.

They lack a few characteristics their Hyrulean counterparts have; power, wisdom and courage, their true power from themselves and are weaker compared to them. Unlike their Hyrulean selves, they needed the Lorulean or the Hyrulean Triforce. Ravio called himself a coward, Hilda may have magic powers but her real actions and intentions weren't wise, and Yuga lacks power and is powerless without his magic staff. That makes them Lorulean counterparts of Link, Zelda and Yuga because they are similar and the opposite at the same time. I wonder, what would happen if Ravio, Hilda and Yuga become whole with Link, Zelda and Ganondorf?--Prince Ludwig (talk) 09:17, 1 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I think you should stop speculating now, or at least move it to an actual forum and report back once your theory gets incontrovertible support. These claims you make about, for instance, Yuga's Staff and his powerlesness without it are really not based on any credible source. Dekler (talk) 00:54, 2 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Indeed, this discussion is getting rather out of hand.


 * I think we're going about this the wrong way. We're taking objective similarities with Ganon and Ghirahim and somehow turning it into a matter of opinion. I say we simply note the resemblances between Yuga and Ganon and Ghirahim, and leave it at that. No speculation. As it stands, the Theory section doesn't read encyclopedically at all.


 * All the word "counterpart" really means is, "a person or thing that corresponds to or has the same function as another person or thing in a different place or situation" (Oxford). By definition, it doesn't make sense to say someone is "maybe," "possibly," "likely" a counterpart of another. Either he is or he isn't. 01:53, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Dexter: I wasn't speculating at all. Because I personally saw that and they are true. You'll see at the end of the game and they'll reveal how similar they are and how worse Link and Zelda could have been if there weren't a Hyrulean Triforce. About Yuga being powerless without the magic staff, I wasn't the first one who pointed out. And I agreed Yuga's similarities with Ghirahim and couldn't be counterpart to the Sword Spirit because Ghirahim was gone eons before Yuga. But could be the Sword Spirit reborn as being, right? Hylian King: Ahem... Yes, Yuga is a counterpart to Ganon. And they merged together, having the same personality, same intentions, similar design, strong or even stronger as YuGanon than themselves, even betraying the trust of the king of Hyrule and the princess of Lorule. Two halves made whole... >:D

I'm cool if we note the similarities between Yuga, Ganondorf and Ghirahim at the theory section. And thanks Hylian King.--Prince Ludwig (talk) 05:20, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

"Demise originated from Lorule"
I don't think this part of the theory has much to do with Yuga and it hasn't been put up for discussion in the talk page either. Move it to Demise? Dekler (talk) 22:30, 10 December 2013 (UTC)


 * It's already on the Demise page, so I'd say it can be removed from here entirely. Setras (talk) 02:29, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Ganon's Counterpart
Ravio is Link's counterpart, but without a Triforce of Courage.

Hilda is Zelda's counterpart, but without a Triforce of Wisdom.

So, who is Ganon's counterpart––but without a Triforce of Power?


 * By the way, Akley, welcome to the wiki. And you should add your signature on talk pages, so we know who we're talking to. By the way, it's this "~ ~ ~ ~", no spaces.


 * And yes, you know that Yuga is Ganon's counterpart. And you also know what Ravio, Hilda and Yuga lacks from Link, Zelda and Ganon; Courage, Wisdom, Power. Very good. What more can you say about Yuga being Ganondorf's counterpart? Note more about Yuga's similarities and dissimilarities to Ganondorf that plausibly makes him a counterpart, highly plausible enough to be written on the theory section, but I don't think there's need for that since it was pointed out how similar to Ganon he really is. :p --Prince Ludwig (talk) 05:05, 15 December 2013 (UTC)