Zelda Wiki:Discussion Center


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Comment templates
So gradually we've been getting a lot of "comment" templates in articles, like "Navi's Comment" and "Tatl's Comment" etc. And I'm not here to complain about them, they're quite neat to have (and hell, I contributed most of the Fi ones). However, I notice we've now got templates for Midna, various manuals and even one for Nintendoland, so I want to propose that perhaps we form a standard for these templates. Right now, they are placed in different sections of various articles, and tend to mount up (take a look at Octorok to see what I mean).

Would it be worth having a new section devoted to these templates? Or even a new template altogether, that encompasses and displays all the current content in one? At the very least, I would think it's worth merging all the existing templates into one multi-purpose comment template (if we do it right, there would functionally be no difference, and it would allow for easy expansion in the future). --Dorsal Axe 22:22, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Merging them sounds like a potential idea, but I'm not sure the best way of doing so. There's also the figure descriptions in TWW and TMC, too. 01:46, 30 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Whether it's or , I don't really see much of a difference. Why would standardizing these templates be worth editing  the 300+ pages they're used on? Also, if I understand it correctly, editing a piece of a heavily-used template as opposed to a separate, smaller one = bigger job queue = bigger server strain (I might be talking through my hat on that one, though).


 * But I do agree the comments could use a face-lift in terms of style. If anyone had any ideas on that front they'd be greatly appreciated. This isn't the first time we've talked about needing to change the darn things, but I don't remember hearing any suggestions as to what we could actually do to them (can't really think of any myself, at the moment). :P As for their placement, I don't particularly see a problem with them being placed differently as long as it's logical and justifiable. It does look pretty bad when they pile up like that, though. Perhaps a dedicated section would indeed be order in those cases. What would we call such a section, however? Hm...  02:16, 30 January 2013 (UTC)


 * What is the policy for enemy pages at the moment when it comes to covering different games? Some pages are split by game, others try to go for a more "general" approach. Personally I think the general approach is lacking and flawed, and find it much easier to organize and follow pages that refer to the enemy and how it changes from game to game. This would solve the issue that's being brought up here, because without dedicated sections in an article for specific games the templates have nowhere to go, and end up bunched up at the top. 01:04, 31 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Reorganizing these pages by game would be a big step backward since we spent a considerable amount of time and effort (and by "we" I mean Cipriano) reorganizing them into what Cip likes to call "a superior encyclopedic format." This "general" approach emphasizes in-universe writing, which in turn makes for a more engaging read. On the other hand, organizing them by game can often cause redundancy. A subject that spans several games always carry some similarities from one title to another.


 * There are pros and cons to either approach. If you ask me, the key is finding a balance between the two. Take the Link and Zelda articles for example. (Or the Soldier article, if I may be so bold). 22:57, 31 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, a balance is vital, but I'm not necessarily sure it's our job to be TOO in-universe. I think the Hyrule Historia approach is best, stay relatively in-universe but don't be afraid to mention specific games, I mean, it's impossible NOT to mention them. I don't see the big deal of having sections covering what are effectively different "events" in the universe's history. I mean, pretending that Stalfos use either swords or maces when in fact they only use maces in ONE game (which is on ONE timeline) means the "general" approach is way too vague when you have a subject as universal and yet heavily varied as the Stalfos. Hyrule Historia doesn't pretend they're the same in each era, either. I guess I'm arguing for the same thing as you, I just don't see how having different subsections hurts that "feel" at all, it just organizes things. Not the best example because I'm not thinking in terms of timeline here, just release dates, but nobody would expect a history book to cover the changing history of a nation in a non-chronological manner. 00:36, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Just an idea...for pages with multiple templates, why not use the tab template? It makes it less cluttered and allows us to save space. 02:01, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

The Dividing Line of Cheats and Glitches
A recent edit has come to my attention that claims that cheats/hacks and glitches are independent of one another, and thus anything involving cheating devices should not constitute as being a glitch. I disagree with this, though, and I think that even though it's initiated by a cheating device, you still can encounter glitches that would only be available under the influence of said devices; thus, it's only an issue of discerning what a glitch is (a malfunction), and even though it's by external means, the glitches likely aren't the intended result of the codes within the cheats as the latter are only meant to unlock certain abilities. These abilities simply open the range for which glitches may occur. I'd really like to hear what other people have to say about this, though. 07:49, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I think a gltich is really defined as a game not behaving as intended. Using hacking or a cheat cartridge to cause strange things to occur isn't really glitching the game at all, because it's impossible on normal hardware. Numerous games are designed so that once you break the "laws" of the game you are suddenly able to witness a ton of things simply not working as intended. These are never fixed because no player would normally have access to them. For example, you can use cheat codes to access Master Hand in the original Smash Bros., but playing as Master Hand frequently causes errors. But these aren't really glitches because there's no way anyone would normally access this.
 * Think of it like breaking the fourth wall. A standard glitch breaks this fourth wall in normal game play, suddenly allowing you to see behind the "set" of the game. With a cheat device, you can just run around behind the set and look around and mess with things, but that isn't a glitch, that's just messing with the innards of a game and seeing what happens.
 * Stuff like the crooked cartridge is similar, but at least you don't have to have a cheat device to perform those glitches. I would still call those cheats rather than glitches, however, because it's not massively different, you have to go about it with a real aim to effectively break the game.
 * As for the glitch in question in the edit, that's definitely not a glitch. If you break the sequence of any game you can cause very similar things to occur. There would be like a billion examples. It's all to do with the way games are programmed. If you don't trigger certain "flags" or events, things won't activate, characters won't appear, etc., it's very normal behavior and often very intentional. 14:31, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree. In fact, the other day I almost removed the very section in question myself. Using external tools to push a game beyond the limits of its intended design is not a true glitch by any definition. My understanding is that the purpose of these pages is to highlight exploits caused by flaws and oversights in the game's coding (like using the hookshot through other objects, missing collision, reusing consumable items etc.) It's definitely not a cheat, and I think Darkness simply said that for want of a better word. This is more like... breaking the game through hacking?
 * And I'd also agree that the Crooked Cartridge trick isn't really a glitch either, since that's not strictly an issue with the software. Let's face it: If you mess with the hardware, bad things are gonna happen. But it's an interesting sequence breaking trick nonetheless, I suppose. As for this one, it's neither a trick of any use, nor something anyone is going to ever come across without deliberately going out of their way to mess with the game. --Dorsal Axe 16:40, 4 February 2013 (UTC)