Talk:Sacred Realm


 * Archive 1

Theory regarding Hyrule/Sacred Realm juxtaposition in LoZ/AoL.
Being new to the site, I haven't had the leisure of see all past theories and discussions.

However, I would like to field a hypothesis regarding the possible chronology placing LoZ and AoL after ALttP. This seems somewhat likely to me, as LoZ references Ganon invading Hyrule to gain the Triforce, NOT invading the Sacred Realm. In theory, does it not seem plausible that when Link defeated Ganondorf in ALttP and repaired the Sacred Realm, the peace and prosperity that followed for Hyrule were because Link merged or exchanged the two realms? This would then place LoZ in context to have the resting place of the Triforce in Hyrule, as well as falling in line with the interview placing ALttP as a prequel.

This would also open the possibility that Ganon was NOT the same villain as Ganondorf, but a follow thereof. This would also fall in with the statement at the end of ALttP that Ganondorf had been destroyed utterly.

I'm placing this under the Sacred Realm discussion since it seems that the chronology could place the first two games as being a conflict centered on, and happening in, a Hyrulian Sacred Realm. Feel free to pick this apart, but be gentle. It's my first time here.

Ithrion the Grey 19:38, 4 October 2011 (EDT)Ithrion the Grey

If you look at the timeline page, you can see that that possibility is already there. LoZ and AoL are in and are placed before and after ALttP, showing that it is possible for them to exist in both. Vyselink 22:03, 6 October 2011 (EDT)

The Sacred Realm prior to Ocarina of Time
While Hyrule Historia does not mention the Sacred Realm when covering the events prior to Ocarina of Time, the section covering the creation of the Temple of Time does not act as if the Sacred Realm was created then. So we can't assume that anything about it being the Triforce's resting place has been retconned. We do not know where the Triforce was kept at any event prior to the backstory of Skyward Sword, but we can assume it was the Sacred Realm. I can only assume the reason it was not still there is because it was in Hylia's care. Why it was not returned there and instead sent to the sky is unknown, but presumably Demise could potentially access the Sacred Realm during this time, and Hylia did not want this. The Sacred Realm was not cut off from Hyrule until later. 01:05, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying though that it is definitely a retcon. What I'm suggesting is that we take it as ambiguously canon. The fact that Hyrule Historia doesn't mention the Sacred Realm on page 70, isn't a good reason? The Triforce could have been placed in the Sacred Realm, or simply given to Hylia and so it could be in Hylia's Temple for example. The fact that there is the Triforce's symbol there makes it possible. Basically, the main point of the edit was to make the article more neutral. Zeldafan1982 01:36, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * While Hyrule Historia is an important source, we don't want to negate the evidence directly presented to us in the games. It's not our job to rewrite what the games say to suit Hyrule Historia's presentation, especially when what they say is fairly ambiguous in the first place. Is there anything in that opening paragraph that actively contradicts what Hyrule Historia says? HH doesn't cover everything in detail, most things are mentioned in passing. Further detail is what this wiki is for, yes?
 * Basically, while HH is largely canon, it's not infallible, they even outright say so in the book. There are going to be some contradictions here and there. As things go, this is a fairly minor one. Unless you think I am missing something in particular? 02:19, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The thing is that the last game mentioning that the Triforce was placed in the Sacred Realm after the creation is OoT. If it was a very recent official source that said that then I wouldn't be arguing. Skyward Sword as I said also doesn't mention the Sacred Realm. So, I don't see why the possibility of a retcon would be unreasonable here (it wouldn't be the first time in the series). Anyway, my opinion is that at this point we can't be certain about the Triforce's location after its creation. Others can leave their opinion too. Zeldafan1982 04:26, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I need to delve into the quotes a bit deeper but it's POSSIBLY true that perhaps the Triforce was not originally placed there and was given to Hylia immediately. At the same time, I very much doubt that the Sacred Realm is anything other than the intended resting place of the Triforce. I don't see either possibility as being mutually exclusive, however. Both things can occur quite happily, I'm sure. 02:42, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Even if the Triforce was not placed there after its creation, the Sacred Realm is still a resting place, albeit later. One possibility is that the Goddesses created many realms and after SS the Triforce was moved there to be more safe. Then when the war ensued Rauru took more drastic measures and isolated it. Maybe the realm was only named like that after the Triforce was placed there (since it housed a sacred power) or taking into account Lanayru's quote (the Japanese version) every realm created by the gods is a holy land so the name doesn't really matter.
 * P.S. Do you mean that Hylia took it initially and put in the Sacred Realm? It's possible, but the Triforce could have been placed there after SS.
 * P.S 2 I will probably not have enough time to edit on the next few days so I'll reply later. Zeldafan1982 04:08, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I was actually suggesting that Hylia also originally resided in the Sacred Realm. Indeed, the Hylian people may of also originated from the Sacred Realm. Of course, this is all speculation, we can only go on what the games say. I checked some quotes and it does seem like the Sacred Realm was not necessarily where the Triforce was placed by the Gods, the NoA manual states this but the Japanese manual just says that is where it was hidden, leaving some ambiguity. Obviously it's hinted at that's where the Gods put it, but it's not clear. 17:51, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Lanayru's quote and other stuff
Lanayru's quote was referring to Hyrule, that's why I had removed it (Link). The respective section on page 113 from HH says the same thing so the re-translation has to be correct.

Lanayru: 神々が最初に降り立った地は聖地と呼ばれ Jumbie: The place where the goddesses first landed is called the holy land. NOA: The lands where the goddesses descended came to be known as the Sacred Realm.

世界は長きにわたり信心深い者達の心で平安であった… Jumbie: For a long time, the world was at peace, with people's hearts being deeply faithful… NOA: For ages, the people lived at ease, content in mind and body...

しかし、やがて聖地ハイラルを巡り争いが起こった Jumbie: But at length, a rivalry ensued over Hyrule, the holy land. NOA: But soon, word of the Sacred Realm spread through Hyrule, and a great battle ensued...

Deku Tree: (Link) 混沌の地　ハイラルに 黄金の三大神、降臨す. jacensolo06: Three great golden goddesses descended to the land of chaos that was Hyrule. NOA: Three golden goddesses descended upon the chaos that was Hyrule...

神々の　去りし地に、黄金の聖三角　残し置く. jacensolo06: Golden sacred triangles were left behind in the land from which the gods left. NOA: And golden sacred triangles remained at the point where the goddesses left the world.

So, in OoT and ALttP the Sacred Realm is the parallel dimension we know, whereas in TP for some reason Hyrule itself is called the Sacred Realm. Also, according to both OoT and TP the goddesses descended to Hyrule, not the Sacred Realm.

Since the ALttP quote about the Sacred Realm having golden skies is a NOA invention isn't better if we remove it from the intro? I have added a trivia. Zeldafan1982 23:23, 25 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Firstly, the golden skies are not an NoA invention, as the Japanese text mentions twilight gold skies in a different part of the story I believe, just not in the poem (I find the bigger change is the poem coming from the Book of Mudora, which was totally made up). Secondly, the quote in Twilight Princess, to me, looks ambiguous. The term "Holy Land" is very vague. Hyrule can be a holy land but not THE Holy Land. It looks like Hyrule Historia agrees, as it just refers to the sacred realm of Hyrule in lowercase. But I'm not sure what the "rules" are, since we go by what NoA says, still. 02:36, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * You are right about the "golden skies" thing. I just looked at the manual again and there is this quote (Zethar): "The Triforce was there, casting a golden light in the midst of twilight."
 * Regarding the canon the wiki acknowledges (in the bottom section of the respective page) that the Japanese text is of higher canonical value and says that important differences should be mentioned in the trivia and not the main body. Then the question I guess is whether we should include the quote from NOA in the main body AND the trivia or only the trivia (which also mentions the NOA quote). I think the latter makes more sense.. Seeing that OoT (both NOA and the fan-translations) says that the goddesses descended in Hyrule and not the Sacred Realm is one reason more to ignore NOA's translation for Lanayru. Zeldafan1982 04:08, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Edit: Basically now that I look it again, the whole article is supposed to be written per NOA and the differences should only be mentioned in the trivia. Still, this rule has been "violated" even by Dany in the Oocca page, and I think she did right since the Oocca creating the Hylians was a mistranslation. Also, as I said we still have a NOA quote from OoT saying that the goddesses descended in Hyrule. Zeldafan1982 14:12, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it depends how major the discrepancy is between the two versions. For example, Ganondorf's second name, Dragmire, is mentioned as an NoA invention on his page too. I think there's room for explaining how the Twilight Princess references are probably not referring to the Sacred Realm directly, yes. For now, I'll remove the quote from the top of the page. 17:51, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, you did it already. You and your consecutive edits. 17:53, 26 March 2013 (UTC)