Talk:Rosso

"Goron"
Where does it actually say Rosso is a Goron? He has Hylian ears. Dekler (talk) 14:19, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

I think, based on his Goron-like but also Hylian-like appearance, combined with the presence of both the Goron symbol and hair, that he is a result of Goron evolution, like the Rito and Koroks of The Wind Waker being evolved Zoras and Kokiri respectively. Fyrisvellir (talk) 08:20, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Either that or he's half-Goron. Fyrisvellir (talk) 08:21, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Rosso displays characteristics of both species: Hylian Ears and clothing, and the build of a Goron + their symbol. It would be speculation to call him just Hylian or just Goron, so in my opinion we should list his species as Hylian/Goron.--LordM (talk) 04:39, 1 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure Rosso is Hylian. He does have some Goron-esque traits, but his skin color, eyes, and red hair don't exactly scream "Goron". Then, too, he's shown to enjoy throwing rocks, but if he were a Goron, wouldn't he prefer to eat them? I think it would be a lot safer to just call him a Hylian for now, and maybe put in a theory section about him possibly being, or being related to, a Goron. It has some evidence in its favor and obviously has some community support, so it should be acceptable as a theory, but it seems too unsupported to warrant being put in as fact. Setras (talk) 04:57, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * His skin color and eyes bear a strong resemblance to the Gorons in FSA, more so than any Hylian, combine that with his build, the fact that he lives on Death Mountain, and the presence of the Goron symbol, and I think that he has equal evidence for being part of either race.--LordM (talk) 09:29, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Rosso should be listed as a Hylian. I think his Goron-like features should be listed as trivia, not a theory. Rosso wearing the Goron symbol on his belt is not evidence that he is a Goron. His hair and belt are clearly homages to Darunia, but that doesn't make him a Goron. --Joshua (Yumil) (talk) 15:27, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Race Debate
Given some who have raised issues over proof of Rosso's race, I propose to remove the race from his info box entirely until we have direct confirmation of his race. However, the theory section where speculation about his race is raised should remain, as it is under a proper theory section and label, and there are multiple pieces of evidence that are worthy of mention (appearance, living/working on Death Mountain, Goron symbol, etc). Ghirahim87 (talk) 20:23, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Look at Rosso's body structure, Rosso is big and muscular, but he definitely doesn't have rock-like compositions on his body like Gorons have. Also, he does not live on Death Mountain, he lives next to the Lost Woods, but his work place is on Death Mountain. Rosso can't be a Goron because he doesn't eat rocks, he breaks them for a living, he has ears, and does ot bear any symbols on his body at all.  Not only that, his portrait is found in the Ice Temple, you can't base species just because his "Belt" has the Goron Symbol engraved on it.  --Vaati The Wind Demon (talk) 20:44, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It is clear he is not strict Hylian, and the symbols have been used to indicate relations to other races in the past, see . He is clearly meant to evoke the look and feel of Gorons.  The theory section should stay and no official race should be listed for him until we have specification by the developers.  Ghirahim87 (talk) 21:16, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Theories are fine, as long as they are explained properly. If your refering to Makar, Medli and Kamali, Eiji Aonuma said that the Rito Tribe evolved from the Zora Tribe and the Korok Tribe evolved from the Kokiri Tribe, so it's obvious that they would be using the same symbols because technically, they are the same. But we can't use that on Rosso because he doesn't have a *Group* of his own like Makar, Medli, and Kamali do and Gorons still existed in that timeline. Also, no olden Zoras, besides Laruto's Spiritual Soul or olden Kokiris besides Fado's Spiritual Soul appear in either the Adult Timeline, Wind Waker, or Spirit Tracks as of yet, just treasures from the Zora Tribe have ever been mentioned or seen from them, however, Gorons in the flesh have appeared in Spirit Tracks unchanged. In the Decline Era, the only time I can recall that Gorons have appeared where in Holidrum and Labrynna, unchanged too. --Vaati The Wind Demon (talk) 22:34, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The same grounds that were used to justify the ancestry of those from can easily be applied to Rosso.  There isn't a thing different between these cases.  Just because Gorons appeared during the era of the Oracle games does not mean that the Goron race and the Hylian race may have mingled in Hyrule in between.  Your arguments against Rosso being of Goron descent seem very flimsy to me, as they aren't grounded in rational thought.  It's pretty clear the game developers intended us to recognize him to be of Goron descent in some way.  Ghirahim87 (talk) 04:26, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * No it's not, your basing your arguments of Rosso being part Goron on one little symbol, and yes there is a thing different bettween these cases, have you actually played A Link Between Worlds? First, you claimed he lived in Death Mountain, when his house is next right to the Lost Woods, to me, your arguments are the one that aren't very rational.  Look at Rosso's artwork very carefully, he barely has any traits of a Goron besides both being *Big and Muscular*.  He may be a reincarnation of Darunia, but he doesn't have to be part Goron to be his new form.  --Vaati The Wind Demon (talk) 12:10, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I have played it through four times now, thank you very much. He lives at the foot of Death Mountain and works on it.  The real question here is have you played the game?  He is clearly not all Hylian and appears to be part Goron, and the presence of the symbol is all the more reason to believe this no matter how much you may want to say otherwise.  The game developers did not put the Goron symbol on him of all people in the game just for s**ts and giggles as you claim, they often never do things like that by accident.  In this case, their intent is abundantly clear to most.  You really have no case here because your sole reason for raising this stink is that you don't think all the evidence matters, when most others disagree.  I advise you to give up this pointless argument and actually play the game through thoroughly.  Ghirahim87 (talk) 15:28, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I never said it was for *Swear Word and Giggles* at all. As far as I know, you and I are the only ones who have pitched in here so no, most people do not agree with you at all, because all I've heared from you is basic slander against my points, if you've actually bothered reading them for once, and if they intened him to be *Part Goron* then he would have *Inhereted* some traits of a Goron, but not, his figure is completely human and his body has no traits of a Goron, no symbols, on his arms or body or no rock-like anything, not a single one. The symbol is most likely to describe that he is a reincarnation of Darunia. I have played the game twice, his portrait is found in the Ice Temple, as for the emblem, you're using this "evidence" as if it is you precious trump card, but all it is is only an emblem. It's obvious that Rosso is mean't to be a reference to the Goron Tribe, but that doesn't mean he is part Goron or is part of this tribe. Evidence, what evidence, there is no solid evidence proving he is part Goron, besides you opinions saying so. I'm done, because this arguing is gonna get no where, and you still haven't read any of my points thoroughly yet about Rosso's body design from what you have written. --Vaati The Wind Demon (talk) 16:13, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * You are raising issues over nothing and looking for trouble where there is none. And yes, actually a big majority of people in my experience agree that he is likely of Goron descent and for obvious reasons.  I have spoken to about 15 friends about the game, and they all said the same thing.  You make for a distinct minority on this issue.  You keep raising the Ice Ruins as an excuse, but you fail to realize that EVERYTHING in Lorule is the inversion of its Hyrulean counterpart.  As Death Mountain is an active volcano in Hyrule, so is it a frozen mountain in Lorule.  Let's examine the evidence:


 * Rosso's appearance: He CLEARLY has some relation to the Gorons just by looking at him.  While he has Hylian ears, EVERY other part of his body SCREAMS Goron.
 * Rosso's home: He lives at the foot of Death Mountain, the known home of (you guessed it) the GORONS in the past.
 * Rossos's job: He spends his days mining in Death Mountain and dealing with rocks.  Now where have we seen this before?  Hmm.....mining.....rocks.....connecting the dots here, they intersect at (you guessed it again) the GORONS (see, , , etc etc etc).
 * Rosso's attire: He dresses in an unusual fashion from other Hylians and is wearing a funny symbol on his belt buckle......now where have we seen that symbol before.....Oh yeah!  We have seen it COUNTLESS times as the symbol of (you guessed it yet again) the GORONS.
 * Color of Rosso's painting: Rosso is trapped in the red painting in the collection of Sages.....hmmmm now which Sage was associated with the color red in the past....Oh yeah, that's right!  It was Darunia, the GORON Sage of Fire who lived on (you guessed it) Death Mountain!  And where was Rosso's painting held in Lorule....Oh that's right!  He was held in the Lorulean counterpart of Death Mountain!


 * Need I say more here???? Ghirahim87 (talk) 17:23, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * All you've basically done was try to make me into a bad guy in this situation, so I'm not the one trying to make trouble. I'm not here to argue for the fun of it like you claimed, I'm trying to reason in a civilized manor, but you using terms like "You're doing this for Swear Word and Giggles" and "You're a minority in this issue" is not only uncivilized, but it also implies you are trying to make a good guy bad guy situation out of this argument, and that's why I'm ending it after this post.  There is no simalarities between this http://zeldawiki.org/images/f/f3/LargeManALBW.png and this most detailed work of a Goron http://zeldawiki.org/images/9/97/TPGoron.png besides both being big and muscular, lets get others "From this Site and not in your say-sos" to have a say in this.  Oh and the Ice Ruins wassn't my only "excuse", and yes, I know Lorule is Hyrule's opposite in many things.  A lot of Hylians dress differently, doesn't mean anything in this case.  He spends his days mining yes, but not by eating or rolling into stones like Gorons do.  Alright, I've shared and repeated myself over enough my work here is done, I want others to contribute in this now.  --Vaati The Wind Demon (talk) 18:02, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * @Ghirahim87:
 * Rosso's appearance isn't inherently evidence of anything, as any conclusions drawn based on it are subjective. You, for example, think that Rosso's appearance "screams" Goron, but I find his skin color too light, his eyes too humanoid (as the Gorons typically have solid colored, pupil-less eyes, usually purple), and his hair too much like... well, hair. Gorons, being made of rock, generally have hair that looks rocky, when indeed they have anything resembling hair at all.
 * Rosso living at the foot of Death Mountain is, again, not inherent proof of his heritage. Irene and her Witch grandmother live near the mouth of Zora's River- does this make them Zoras? It would be logical for a miner to live near veins of ore, and a mountain would be the logical place to find them.
 * Rosso being a miner does not indicate his race, either. Just going off his job, you could also "logically" conclude that he's part Subrosian. Does it support the idea that he's part Goron? Yes, a little bit. But it's not inherently evidence that he is.
 * Rosso's attire would actually kind of be evidence against him being a Goron- once they're fully grown, Gorons usually either don't wear clothes at all, or at best wear loincloths or cloth underwear. Plus, the fact that he's wearing the Goron symbol could just be because the symbol itself is synonymous with Death Mountain. Heck, it's possible (though unlikely) that his mine is Dodongo's Cavern, which would've been filled with the symbol, hence his adopting it.
 * The color of the painting would, at best, just be further evidence that he's the Sage of Fire, and even this correlation isn't 100% solid (as Oren has an orange painting despite being affiliated with water, while Irene's painting is blue). The fact that he's the Sage of Fire could potentially be evidence that he's related to Darunia, but this is again not a solid link, and in any case would still only be proof that he's part Goron- he'd still be Hylian overall.
 * Setras (talk) 18:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * @Setras:
 * All flimsy attempts to dismiss the evidence in my book, just as flimsy as your friend. You also seem to be laboring under the delusion that I am arguing he is a full-blown Goron, which if you had read any of the above argument fully you would know is not the case.  I am making the argument that he is of Goron descent, not that he is a full Goron.  He is part Hylian and part Goron from what most can see.  And as I have said, I have spoken to about 15 different friends who all have played the game, and they all agreed:  he almost certainly is of Goron descent, and the above pieces of evidence are only a few of the reason why.


 * Rosso's appearance is one of the biggest pieces of evidence in support of his being of Goron descent. His lighter skin color is likely the result of the mixing of the Hylian and Goron races, something you conveniently like to gloss over.  If he is not full Goron, naturally he is not going to share all of their features, namely their rock-like hides.  As for hair, tell that to the Goron Elders we have seen, who nearly always had hair.
 * Rosso lives at the foot of Death Mountain. The Witch lives on the pathway toward Zora's Domain, not right in front of it.  Or have you not noticed that?
 * "Rosso being a miner does not indicated his race either" sounds just like the flimsy attempts of the previous user to dismiss something that doesn't fit with your view. I never said it concretely proves anything, but it definitely is a piece of evidence in support of it, something you like to conveniently dismiss.
 * Rosso's attire is a mixture of Goron and Hylian clothing. As those races seem to have mixed, so too have their customs and clothing it appears.  You also conveniently ignore this.
 * The color of the paintings are almost all indicative of their status as Sages, save for Oren and Irene, who have their colors switched simply because of their appearances. Ghirahim87 (talk) 18:20, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

May we please have insight on this issue from other Zeldapedians, I would like to hear what others have to say on this issue, that way, we can reach consensus quicker, please? --Vaati The Wind Demon (talk) 01:56, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Personally, I doubt that Goron/human hybrids are even a thing. As far as we can tell, do they even reproduce sexually?  Since they're a unisex species it's likely they either procreate through budding or asexual birth.  It's possible that Gorons have evolved into a more humanoid form by this point in the timeline, but why is he literally the only Goron-like individual in the game, while every other character has at least one other, similar person they're related (Oren is the Zora Queen, every other Sage is Hylian)?  But more importantly, and this is specific to Ghirahim's argument, his clothing isn't a mixture of Goron and Hylian clothing.  Most Gorons don't wear anything at all, and the few times they do it's either a loin cloth (TP) or a tacky tropical shirt (WW). --KingStarscream (talk) 20:01, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I said a "mixture," not fully. He possesses something covering his bottom like Gorons of the past and yet has other clothing resembling Hylian clothing.  It is indicative of how the species changed most likely.  I don't think anyone can argue with a straight face that he is full-blooded Hylian, because that obviously isn't true.  I mentioned that as the races have changed, so too have some of their customs and culture.  Look at how the Zoras have changed for example compared to how they were in the past.  They look nothing like what they used to, yet it's made clear they are Zoras.  Ghirahim87 (talk) 20:14, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, the appearance of the Zoras in ALBW is pretty consistent with how River Zoras have looked all throughout the Downfall timeline (with the possible exception of their color scheme). And the idea that Rosso isn't fully Hylian isn't obvious- the fact that this discussion has gone on so long is proof of that. Plus, as KingStarscream pointed out, Gorons have always been depicted as a single-gender (seemingly male) race, with nothing about their reproductive process displayed. There is therefore no conclusive evidence on which you can base Rosso being part Goron. Is it a possibility? Yes. Is it probable? Based on the evidence we have, no. Setras (talk) 20:35, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I can easily argue that he is a full-blooded Hylian, because we've had a ton of bulky Hylians in past games. As for the symbol: big deal, Link himself has items of clothing with the Goron symbol on them that he usually obtains by exploring Death Mountain.
 * This is set after ALttP, and Gorons don't even appear in that game (the closest being Deadrocks). There's also no reason for them to have evolved as the Rito and Korok did, because those were explicitly due to massive environmental change. So assuming they must have evolved is pretty much a red herring.
 * Rosso is neither obviously nor explicitly a Goron. He shares characteristics with the Gorons as a fourth-wall callback, much like the Postman-like Rito in TWW, or like the Oracle-like fangirls in TP. It would be irresponsible to claim that his race includes Goron: at best it can be assumed Hylian, otherwise it should be left blank (my preference).KrytenKoro (talk) 20:54, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * If you can explain, explain away. He's obviously not full-blooded Hylian just by looking at him.  His facial features and eyes are nothing at all like anyone else we see in the game.  The Gorons were not even conceived as a concept when ALTTP came out, so your analysis of that is flawed in that respect.  The Gorons existed LONG in the past and continued to exist even after the Great Flood in the Adult Timeline.  As for evolution, it's the one explanation that has been used by the game developers in the past to explain differences, therefore I think that remains the most respected explanation regardless of how you try to maneuver around it.  And no matter how much you may want to dismiss the symbol he bears, it still remains there and has indicated ancestry in games like TWW and others, and no amount of attempting to dismiss it is going to change that.  In fact, attempts to dismiss the importance of that symbol undermines one's credibility in this debate, in my book at least.  You know, a lot of people dismissed the idea of the Link from TP being an actual descendant of the Hero of Time/Hero's spirit, and used the exact same kinds of tactics to try and argue against it.  Then, when Hyrule Historia came out and confirmed that was in fact the case, every single one of those naysayers got egg on their face for it, because they did not want to accept evidence where it existed.  I would suggest not following in their footsteps.  Ghirahim87 (talk) 02:28, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Fyer for the ludicrous "facial features" claim, Grog for eyes. Your response about ALttP misses the obvious point that ALBW is concieved as a sequel to ALttP and you're claiming that the Gorons just disappeared and then came back to evolve into a Hylian hybrid. For your...weird ad hominem about me trying to maneuver around evolution, um, extinction. And I gave an example of how the symbol does not always indicate ancestry in Ocarina of Time, the game that introduced Gorons. Or are Armos and Link descended from Gorons now too?
 * Also...just quit the BS about treating this as some kind of "battle", where you get egg on your face if you suggest, I don't know, actually waiting for bloody sources instead of pulling speculation out of your arse. This is an encyclopedia about a fictional topic, not a real-life historical project, and you're acting like a child.KrytenKoro (talk) 03:53, 10 December 2013 (UTC)