Zelda Wiki talk:Featured Article Nomination

Opposition Votes
So, with the new "introduction" of opposing votes... how does this affect the maximum monthly vote? Is it still one per month? Maybe one support and one oppose per month? One support and no maximum opposition? Thoughts? --Ando (Talk) 20:10, 29 February 2008 (EST)


 * Same as with supporting votes, it's a maximum of one opposition per article/picture, and you cannot oppose content which you nominated yourself. And just like support, opposition can be retracted at the user's discretion.
 * Given these constraints, a monthly limit on opposition would seem unfair; support is about picking which article/picture you like best, but opposition isn't about picking your least favourite. It's intended to allow users to voice their concerns over content which, in their view, doesn't meet the required standards. At any given time, that may be none of the nominated article, or all of them. So I'd say there needs to be free reign to voice opposition. However, the requirements for a valid opposition are more specific; statements which equate to "I don't like ___." are not sufficient and will be discounted unless the users substantiates them. —Adam (talk) 02:47, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Alright, I figured as much; that was what I was hoping for. --Ando (Talk) 13:30, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Could someone put the exact opposition vote rules on the project page? Just so all voters understand the process.--Matt 14:39, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Done as requested :) Adamcox82 18:11, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Featured Article, or Featured Boss?
Bear in mind that already, four of our Featured Articles are bosses (Dark Link, Zant, Ganon, Dodongo). Now look at the current nominees (Majora's Mask, Gohma, Helmaroc King, Darknut, Volvagia); more bosses. Yes, they're cool, but are they great articles? Some don't even meet the minimum requirements... Couple the boss-heavy focus with the enemies nominated/featured (Stalfos, Moblin, ReDead, Octorok) and bingo, 60% are bosses or enemies. What about places, people, items, events etc. ? —Adam (talk) 17:02, 7 March 2008 (EST)


 * "Yes, they're cool"
 * That, sir, is exactly why all those articles are there. Of the seven currently nominated articles, only one nominator actually gave a reason for the article to be featured that wasn't "its a cool boss so it should be featured". People don't really seem to get what makes a featured article. It's a shame, really (and only made worse by half of the voters only echoing "yep, cool boss"). What can we really do about this, though (you'd think that listing the criteria for a featured article at the top of the page would be enough, but...)? --Ando (Talk) 21:21, 9 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Glad I'm not alone! If you're with me on any of those which I opposed, then adding your name to mine will help clear out some of the poorer articles (then we'd just need one more like-minded person!) —Adam (talk) 15:19, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

How about instead of clearing out the unpopular articles we give them a chance to shine by putting it on the Featured Article Nomination page? If a small article (in need of work or detailing) is put on the project page perhaps more people will work on it. It's just a thought but I think it might work. ZeldaGirl96 00:24, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not really sure what you mean? Putting poor articles up for nomination? As for people working on something, well, we have the Articles in need of attention category where anyone can see any articles that need some serious working. 02:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I didn't realize we had a page like that! (you guys already thought about everything!) Thanks for getting back to me Ando. ZeldaGirl96 01:06, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Featured Article Nomination Template
Could someone make a template to place in articles that have been nominated to become a featured article? I think this is a little too important to make myself. I have not been here that long.--Matt 01:21, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Hm, and interesting idea. So a sort of "Hey, this article has been nominated to be a featured article! GO VOTE ON IT OR SOMETHING" sort of deal? I could see this working. In fact, I like the idea. Anyone disapprove? --Ando (T) 16:02, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. --Guy (T 22:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I see that it is done. Looks great.--Matt 13:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Opposing Approved Articles
The Zelda series is ongoing, and articles need to be updated and changed as their subject matter evolves and more information becomes available, but new edits might hurt the article as much as they help it. New standards of the wiki make once feature-worthy articles obsolete as well, so I suggest there be a way to "de-feature" featured articles, if only until they're improved. Some featured articles lack decent organization in some areas and proper cities in others... Though there aren't any strong examples for it now, there should also be a way to get a failed nomination nominated again; it's more likely that an article will be improved than become worse or stay at its current level for an eternity.

I assumed this would be added with oppositions, but I couldn't find it specifically mentioned anywhere. Sorry if I just didn't look hard enough. --Guy (T 22:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * As for point number 2 (re-nominating a previously failed article or picture), it states on the Failed Nominations page, I believe, that "three signed votes in opposition of a nomination temporarily bar it from being featured" (paraphrasing).
 * Point 1... is a good one. I've thought about this before. Maybe we should set some kind of "Featured Article review team" to look over all of the featured articles and see if they're still up to snuff. Maybe? --Ando (T) 02:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Categorizing Feature-Related Pages
There's a category for featured content, but with the new addition of many pages dedicated to the voting of featured content, maybe there should be a category just for those types of pages. It would make it easier for people (like me) who want to look for a certain one of these pages but are either too lazy to type out the full name or don't know the full name, and it just seems like it could be convenient to have a list of them all (including the Featured Content category, of course). --Guy (T 22:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, another good idea. I'll get on it right away. --Ando (T) 02:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Reminder
I have just made reminder templates. They are used to remind users that they have already voted. See Template: Article Reminder and Template: Picture Reminder. Also look on my talk page to see how they are to be placed on user talk pages.--Matt 20:10, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

So...
10 votes for the Master Sword...so how long is it going to be before it's featured? I notice that it's been here for at least two days, even with 10 votes. --Mr. Mystery, 24 June 2008 (EST)


 * The current method we have for displaying featured articles is simplistic and limits the number we may have. This requires another article to be disqualified. A much better script to display featured articles has already been written. The script would let us have a maximum of 182 featured articles providing they are changed every two days. The script has yet to be implemented. 04:37, June 24, 2008 (UTC)


 * Right, I typically let Adam handle this (he's better at it than I am) and the staff hasn't actually discussed your idea in detail, Matt... Alright, Matt, if you notice that we're both on at the same time, drop me a line. I'm thinking about implementing your idea (I don't think that the staff seemed too against it). 12:29, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Right now we have 31 templates for featured articles. Since each article gets two templates, we should put this new featured article on template 31 and make another one numbered 32. I'll do the updating to the script once that is done. 15:50, June 24, 2008 (UTC)

Removed opposition vote for The Golden Goddesses
FRIGGIN' HITTING THE ENTER BUTTON WHILE TRYING TO EDIT THE SUMMARY AND IT SAVES THE PAGE BEFORE YOU CAN FINISH ARGGHSDFODIOSMLKNH Anyway, so, Felicia's Champion: I re-added your opposition vote to The Golden Goddesses, but with a note stating that the problem is resolved and that you'd withdrawn your vote (with proof so I'm not accused of poll-altering later on). I believe it to be more "historically accurate" this way, that way we know exactly how the votes went down (plus, a year from now, Sea's "It's got a picture of Nayru now" might seem a little random without knowing the story behind it, don't you think?). I figure that any moved votes for featured content should follow this. 01:57, 27 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Alright, I see. Yep, that makes sense. --Felicia&#39;s Champion 02:08, 27 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well it does. Apparantly Ando was thinking the same thing while editing as I was looking for the picture "WHERE IS THIS F****** PICTURE THERE A GOD D*** FARORE AND DIN ALL OVER THE PLACE WHY CAN'T THERE BE A NAYRU D*****!"


 * Excuse the language, but it gets old when you can't find the Nayru picture. 12:04, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I can understand the F-word being censored, but why "Damn"? You even used "Friggin', Ando which seems to be a lot worse than plain old "Damn". 15:27, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Making a nomination
how do i make a nomination?Dragonstetraforce 22:36, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It's quite simple, really. Simply copy this text:
 * == article ==
 * description






 * Just replace "article" with the name of the article you want to nominate, replace "description" with the reason that you're nominating it, and leave everything else untouched. Put all that underneath all of the current nominees and you've just nominated an article! ;) 01:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

thanksDragonstetraforce 23:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

so um... how long does it take for people to vote?Dragonstetraforce 21:34, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Basically however long it takes for them to decide to check the nomination pages and see what they want to vote for. Heck, there hasn't actually been a vote in almost half a month; remember, these are regular people just like you, most of whom probably don't come to the wiki daily; sometimes maybe not even weekly. As such, it could take a while for votes to start showing up, but as the month passes you should start to see something happen. ;) 00:55, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

ok, ill keep that in mind.Dragonstetraforce 00:28, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

hold on isnt the idea to pick the most well written article. tetraforce has some great detail.Dragonstetraforce 20:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Bring it up with the opposers.


 * Besides, it's NOT a real thing in the Zelda Universe. It's a fan-made rumour. And as such, I believe this should not be nominated. I'll oppose it later. --Felicia&#39;s Champion 23:36, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Number of Votes
i accept the fact the article lost. but something in the procecss just isnt fair. it takes 10 votes for it to be approved but only 3 to be rejected. this makes articles rejcted too quickly and there is just no time to collect 10. as a result the current article stays much longer and many articles are rejected without a fair chance. how about 5 support and 5 oppose?Dragonstetraforce 20:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

same goes for pictures.Dragonstetraforce 00:14, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Interesting point. We may have to change it. But perhaps we should take small steps first. We could change the opposition vote requirement to five instead of three. We can keep the support votes where there are. We can try this out for a few months and if it works we could consider other possibilities. 00:22, September 20, 2008 (UTC)


 * Um, typically if an article gains three opposition votes that quickly then it's clearly not cut out to be featured (at least, not in the eyes of the community, who it's being featured FOR). I honestly don't see any reason to bump it up, and would prefer if it stay down - there have been many times where two opposition votes will be given and there REALLY needs to be a third, yet none is made, so an "okay" article becomes featured. But if more people want this, I guess we'll have to change it. 04:21, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm with Ando on this. The balance is skewed to give much greater weight to opposition votes for a reason. Opposition voting was originally added as a safeguard to prevent content deemed unsuitable from being featured, since the goal of Featured content is to represent the very best we have to offer. If three individuals find fault enough with a particular article or image to take the time to vote against it, then it's clearly not the best. Would we really want to see Featured articles that got 10 support votes along with four strong oppositions? I feel uneasy seeing something featured with more than one reasoned opposing comment. I could easily see this resulting in more people voting against stuff just to get the numbers up. Also, of the 11 articles we've featured so far this year, they had only two opposition votes between them all. Really, my only concern with opposition voting is that sometimes the "regulars" here are too quick to throw in oppositions votes, and this can then colour other voters' opinions. If people would be willing to follow my personal unwritten rule to refrain from adding an opposing vote less than a week after something was nominated, it may redress the balance somewhat? 06:21, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

i think pepole who vote oppose have much less of a reson. just check the failed nominations.Dragonstetraforce 16:15, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

plus the number of support voters could higher than the number of support votes taken when you get 3 oppose becuse like YOU said ando, most users arent regulars. you cant take it back now becuse i just quoted you. Dragonstetraforce 23:15, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ...what? --Felicia&#39;s Champion 23:59, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


 * My sentiments exactly, FC. Any chance you could, uh, re-phrase what you said there, Dragon? You made it sound like I disproved my own argument with that quote of yours, but I don't honestly see how that affects anything. 03:08, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll try at translation. Most users of Zelda Wiki.org are not regular users. Failed nominations are voted down by the regular members for the most part. Hence the problem. By only requiring three opposition votes, we are effectively silencing the voice of a vast majority of our users. True, us regulars take a lot of the workload and responsibility. But we are not the only ones here and we'd be nothing without the other members. In the interest of being fair, or at least more so, to all our members, we should consider raising the opposition vote requirement. 03:28, September 23, 2008 (UTC)

Oh...why couldn't he just say that?

The most I would consider raising the opposition votes to is 5. No more than that, and I'm happy with it to stay at three. --Felicia&#39;s Champion 11:14, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Perhaps that IS what he meant. I dunno. D:
 * I'd never consider raising the minimum of opposition votes. Like I said before, if something hits three opposition votes that quickly, it's clearly not worthy of being featured. Increasing that to five would, I believe, only increase the amount of garbage that gets through because FOUR people think no, but there's just not a fifth. Do we really want something to be featured that makes it only by a slight majority - something that's just "okay"? No - featured content is supposed to be the best of the best. After all, did anyone even notice what Adam said?: "of the 11 articles we've featured so far this year, they had only two opposition votes between them all." I think that goes to show just the kind of uniform agreement we should want in choosing our featured content.
 * Regarding the whole "regulars vs. non-regulars" thing, it's typically our regulars who know what makes good featured material anyway. I'm not saying that their vote has more weight, merely that they're more apt to vote "no" on a poor-quality thing because they've had time to see what should and shouldn't get featured, and their ability to determine if something is worthy of that status is greater than that of New User who just registered yesterday and is still learning how to work this thing.
 * I will agree that quite often people who oppose a nomination often have poor reasoning ("everyone knows about this already", or "we shouldn't give just this content in this set the special treatment of being featured" is the lamest thing I've ever heard), but support votes are really no different. Take, for instance, these, which I've pulled straight from the featured article archive: "He needs more fans." "Fun game i like it!" "The master sword is EPIC." Surely these aren't proper reasons to vote for something? They don't mention the article at all, only its subject. Just thought I'd bring that point up. 18:05, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, I'm a little offended that you honestly think I'd try to "take back" something I said. :( I'm a little more scrupulous than that. :P


 * What someone should do, before tearing 'failed' articles off of the featured page, is read the opposition votes. I'm sure people like the sysops do, but I've noticed on occasion that some articles are dismissed for reasons not relating to the article. Case in point: the Redead article (I'll agree it would have eventually failed, but still...) was disqualified with one of the votes against it saying: I like the article, but I have to oppose because I HATE these enemies! Their screams freak me out completely!
 * Votes like this should not be counted towards the opposition. opinions? --Felicia&#39;s Champion 06:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Excellent idea, but SOME kind of true system would have to be devised, because before long you know we'd be getting someone saying "what are you talking about that was a great vote!!!!!!!" Unless it's left entirely up to the sysops (whose opinions I'm sure are completely trusted ;P) or something? I love the theory, but I'm not sure that it would completely work... though, who's to say that it would hurt to try it out for a couple of nominations? 15:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

how about this, we can have a third section labeld challenge. this section lets people challenge other votes and someone shall decide.Dragonstetraforce 23:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

just in case there is a major disagreement.Dragonstetraforce 20:37, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No need. The rules are very clearly stated at the top of the page. That opposition vote was in violation of the rules. It is that simple. There is no point debating what was already determined to be against the rules. 04:41, September 27, 2008 (UTC)


 * That's a good point. "These should be reasoned votes based on the criteria above." The question is, how do we go about saying "Hey, your vote is completely subjective / not related to the article at all, it's no good", and how to discount it? Perhaps a new addition like the template that adds a (Vote is subjective - see rule 3) or some similarly worded thing?  15:56, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

ok, i think i got it. how about: "any vote based mainly on populairity and not on status of the article will not be counted for oppose" and we could replace article with picture when needed.Dragonstetraforce 16:05, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

also i still think 5-5 is the best choice. but hey if it works, ill take it:)


 * I agree with Andy. That's all I have to say :P --Felicia&#39;s Champion 22:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

also im a bit worryed the other wikis are ahead of us. bulba has a comment system so admins can add their opinions about certin votes. if WE had that too we wouldnt be talking about it here.Dragonstetraforce 19:03, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Possible New Voting Policy -- VOTE HERE
There's been discussion recently. Discussion regarding opposition votes. So it's been decided that a community-wide vote would be best. So vote. NOW.

What you will be voting on is this: Should votes that state the same opinion as a previous vote be counted? (i.e. Voter one says "this shouldn't pass because it is blurry", voter two says "yeah, this shouldn't pass. it's too blurry" -- with this policy, voter two's vote wouldn't count) Notes: Let's keep this clean and concise, people. The last thing we need is Midna Art Debate Mk. II. Think carefully, then place your vote under the appropriate heading, and be sure to sign your vote with " ~ ".


 * 1) I am for this policy because it guarantees that the people do get a voice in the voting. In the past, people have did this very thing to fail a nomination they don't like before others get a chance to vote. This policy will protect the rights of users not restrict them. It is not fair to have all three opposition votes cite the very same flaw. If it required five, or ten, votes to fail then it may be different. But with only three, it is extremely unfair to all users for people to abuse this loophole. It is time to close it. 03:00, October 7, 2008 (UTC)


 * 1) I'm wholly against this policy as it removes the voice of members who have valid opinions. If there's a single problem with something, but it's a BIG problem, it's going to become featured anyway because with this policy only one member could point out the problem, and mediocre content would eventually be featured as a result. The opposition process would essentially become useful only for incredibly flawed items, and do we really want the ability for "just okay" content to become featured? Featured content is supposed to be the best of the best. 02:16, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) Wouldn't it be the Midna Art Debate MK IV? As I remember, it rebooted itself twice after the original debate. But anyway... We've already got a problem with this. I agree exactly with that Ando says, and if only one person can get their voice across, then it's not going to stop some sub-average articles getting in. I'll say it again: biased opinions should not be counted, such as someone opposing an article because they hate the enemy, or opposing a Wind Waker image because it's cel-shaded. It's that we should be focusing on, not people saying the same thing over and over. If we had this rule in effect ages ago, articles like Epona and Octorok may well be featured now. And that's something I don't like the sounds of yet...not until they've improved. --Felicia&#39;s Champion 02:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

OTHER COMMENTS:

Possible New Voting Policy Two -- VOTE HERE
There is another policy that has been discussed. Some members has expressed concern that with the current number of required opposition votes removes the voice of a majority of members.

With this new policy the number of required opposition votes for a nomination to fail will be raised to FIVE VOTES .

Notes:
 * Keep this clean and concise. Think carefully, then place your vote under the appropriate heading, and be sure to sign your vote with " ~ ".


 * Make sure to check out the comments and the previous votes before voting yourself. So you can make the best decision possible.


 * 1) I support this policy. When this policy was proposed, the admins rejected it out of hand without considering what the community wanted. I'm not stupid. I know that the other policy, however good it is, will fail. This will reduce the effect of members abusing the same-reason loophole. It will also keep nominations up long enough for many more people to get their say. Most of our members are not regulars. Our regulars are way too fast to vote out new nominations. We need this. 15:08, October 7, 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) yes. i NEED this system. thats a lot of perfectly great articles AND pictures in the trash. im not willing to lose this fight. Dragonstetraforce 21:18, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * 1) Also against this idea. Featured content is supposed to be the best of the best. If something reaches three opposition votes, regardless of if it's from regulars or not, then clearly it must be mediocre content — something not worthy of being featured. Raising the opposition vote limit increases the chance of this average (or worse) content making it through the system and becoming featured. After all, our regulars don't oppose so quickly for the sake of opposing content - they do it because they know what should and shouldn't pass. 17:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

OTHER COMMENTS:
 * I'd just like to point out that this policy will no way let mediocre or low-quality material through. It just is not possible for only two more votes to do that. If something is not good enough, then there is nothing stopping its failure. So don't be so quick to vote against this like Ando was. Think it through first. Actually consider it and you'll see that it is for the better. 20:15, October 7, 2008 (UTC)