Zelda Wiki:Discussion Center

Logo Design
Hi I had just recently found out about your logo design contest on your DeviantArt page, and was just curious as to when the due date is for it, or if it has already passed. I have been looking everywhere for information but couldn't seem to find anything. --UniqSchweick12 10:37, 25 March 2011 (EDT)

Glitch
I was wondering if anyone here knew how to edit the wiki to get user pages back as mine and many of the ones I have tried to go to come up in an error message saying some coding is missing Theif 1 01:32, 31 May 2011 (EDT)


 * Your question has already been answered on this page. Basically, we're in the middle of moving to a faster server, and some of our code required to view userpages was moved. You can still access and edit your page by clicking on [/index.php?title=User:Theif_1&action=edit this link] . To access somebody else's page, just change the name in the URL 07:32, 31 May 2011 (EDT)

500 Internal Server Error
I can't imagine that I would be the only one getting this message, but I'm having a problem uploading new images to the site. I'm sure the site moving to a faster server is the cause (or something around that), but it asked me to inform someone. The message reads:


 * The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
 * Please contact the server administrator, webmaster@zeldawiki.org and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
 * More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
 * Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Yes, I have tried to e-mail webmaster, but the e-mail failed permanently... So i'm hoping the right people see this post. :) 20:20, 31 May 2011 (AST)


 * You're certainly not the only person to be having this problem. I've run into it myself. It seems to happen more often with uploading new versions of images. I'm sure our server people are going to try to figure it out, along with other problems we're having. 02:36, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

ReAsked: How do you make user boxes?
Im asking a common question, and this is a pretty tough thing for me to find. Im just wondering on how to make those userboxes?-=AngryMaskSalesman=- 11:16, 18 June 2011 (EDT)


 * You can use this template to create a userbox quickly. If you don't know what to do, you can copy one of the examples and build on it. If you have trouble picking colors, you can use online tools like this and this. Just copy the code, and make sure you put a "#" before them. (eg. #AF043D)  16:55, 22 June 2011 (EDT)

Ads?
Why aren't there any ads on this wiki? You guys could be raking in the dough right now if there were ads on it, especially with the release of OoT 3D. Jus' sayin... Sean 15:59, 22 June 2011 (EDT)
 * Not to speak in behalf of the staff, but as I take it, this is a non-profit collaborative effort by Zelda fans and a community centered around a common interest. Making a profit isn't necessary nor what it's really about. Frankly, I'd say we're set apart from the likes of Wikia in the sense that we don't sell out, and that's something to take pride in. 16:31, 22 June 2011 (EDT)


 * I remember we did have some advertising. It's that green text you sometimes see in articles. It's not too invasive and generates a modest revenue, enough to keep the wiki running. Other than that, I agree with Pakkun. Besides, I don't think Nintendo would like it if we were making tons of money off their franchise :P 16:55, 22 June 2011 (EDT)
 * They were common during the second half of 2010, but afterwards I've not seen again. -- 17:17, 22 June 2011 (EDT)
 * But still, Bulbapedia makes a huge revenue and no one stops them and no ones mad that they aren't in on it Sean 21:33, 22 June 2011 (EDT)
 * I don't know the specifics, but I'd say their servers have a lot more strain that Zelda Wiki's. They have to support all of Bulbagarden, not just Bulbapedia, which includes the highly active forums. It all goes into the site, and any leftover money is used for giveaways during December, so they don't pocket any cash. 22:03, 22 June 2011 (EDT)

Old pages?
Several of the earliest pages I edited (during the worst of the server spottiness) are still showing old versions, e.g., Gossip Stone, where my edits and a subsequent one by K2L all on July 1 appear in the history, but the active version of the page is from June 27. The next/prev diffs are all funky too. Also affecting Vision, and Sheikah Stone, though the latter seems resolved now, first the page and now the history as well are back in order. --ALegendGuy 12:51, 7 July 2011 (EDT)
 * Hmm, while no reply has been provided, I see the examples I mentioned have been taken care of... so: the issue also applies to Them, and when I decided on exploring Recent Changes back to that date, I discovered that affected edits don’t show up in Recent Changes or watchlists! Ugh.
 * So instead, I looked at new users from around that period... ,ost of whom made no edits at the time and thus were not affected... and finally I checked K2L’s other edit around that time, and confirmed that the issue also affected Dead Hand, but because the affected edits were a trivia edit and its reversion, you can only see this by looking at the messed up history( the last edit is this, yet the diff still has a Newer edit link which falsely places an old edit after it( however, as I noted, K2L’s edit is a revert, so the content is identical and only someone checking the history and knowing what to look for would notice). A more obvious example is Majora's Mask (Boss), at which, like the other pages I have listed, the last edit is not reflected in the version of the page currently displaying. I’m sure I could find more if I had the energy.
 * The upshot of all this is: The pages I have listed are NOT the only ones affected, but because they don’t show up in the changelists, I can’t figure out an efficient way to identify changes. The only method would seem to be looking through every user’s contributions to see what, if any, edits they made at that time, which isn’t practical. And this DOES matter because on affected pages, the Edit link causes the user to edit the OLD version of the page, but does not bring up the warning about editing an old revision. Thus, any affected edits will be lost the next time a well-meaning user edits the page normally. --ALegendGuy 20:29, 7 July 2011 (EDT)

Zelda Wiki community pages
I want to rework the community pages. In summary:
 * 1) Define each page's function clearly with a small sentence at the top. No small talk.
 * 2) Either do something with Castle Town(CT) or dump it
 * 3) Rename Hyrule Castle(HC), The Heart Container(THC) and Pieces of Heart(POH), giving them names related to their functions and with more distinct acronyms
 * 4) Move THC to its own page (it's CT's talk page. Seriously) (done)
 * 5) Merge the Main Page's talk page with HC (how we merge the archives will be discussed later)
 * 6) Remove talk pages for our community pages (anything wrong with the pages should be handled at HC) (done)
 * 7) Protect redirected community pages, so we don't get more of this (not the first time to happen)

I'm thinking of changing HC to "Feedback Center", THC to "Help Desk" and POH to "Archives". Maybe abandon POH altogether and add the archives to HC and THC separately. Please share your opinions on any or all the points above. If something doesn't make sense, please ask. I'd be happy to explain my suggestions. 16:09, 9 July 2011 (EDT)


 * I agree.
 * What can be done, though? No one complains about the Sandbox having a talk page, and if anything it serves as an extra space for people to practice. Analog function here.
 * NO! They're signature names that reminds us that this is a Zelda site by and for the community.
 * Then why did you suggest the second thing? If it's meant to have a different function, then I'd agree.
 * mmmm, I don't know what to say here.
 * Again, why the sandbox page gets special treat here?
 * I agree.
 * See ya around!-- 19:26, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
 * I have been thinking and, in regards of 2 and 4, the idea of putting THC into its own page and establishing a more distinct function would work. So that's what I would support. In regards of merging the main Page's Talk, what if we merge the talk pages of the communities with the MP's? -- 21:03, 9 July 2011 (EDT)


 * 2. I never said anything about talk pages. Anyways, it looks like Steve has something cooking
 * 3. They're unique, but also confusing. I still can't figure out what each is for, so I can't expect others to be able to.
 * 6. The sandbox is for training purposes, and so is its talk page. It is not meant to improve the wiki or our articles, only refine our editors skills. If you want, we can make one or two other sandbox pages with no talk pages. It's no problem, really.
 * Regarding your latest comment: And then have two pages (MP's talk page and HC) with the same function? I say merge all the pages discussing improvements to the wiki in HC.
 * I like your criticism! Please come back with more! 06:15, 10 July 2011 (EDT)
 * My apologies, I confused Castle Town with Heart Container, how embarrasing =P. As for the Community pages' names, what if subtitles were added to the leading images (they do that currently, they're just not clear enough). -- 13:23, 10 July 2011 (EDT)

Redefining the purposes of Hyrule Castle and The Heart Container
Alright, so now that The Heart Container has its own page, I think it's time we settle this: we need to make the distinction between Hyrule Castle and The Heart Container very clear to our editors and visitors. Abdul had brought this up a while ago here, but we never came to a conclusion, and I think it's about time we did. I, an admin myself, don't even know what the difference between these two pages are, so I can only imagine how confusing it must be to new members. By looking at the archives of both the Heart Container and Hyrule Castle, you can't tell what's going on: we have requests, massive wiki changes, and simple questions in BOTH of these pages. Now that I think about it, the acronyms are almost exactly the same (HC and THC), so maybe we should think about changing the name of one (or both) of these pages to further reduce the confusion. Zelda-related, of course. So, what can we do to make the distinction between these two obvious?

Now, to start this off, the introduction at the Heart Container says this:

''Here at The Heart Container users can ask a different user to do a small task on the wiki, that you can not do. Here's an example: "Can somebody clean up picture X?" To post a problem just click the plus (+) symbol next to the "edit" tab on the top of the screen. If you want to take on a problem, simply edit one of the exiting problems and make your response into a reply by adding ":" (without quotes, and an extra colon for each reply) onto the beginning of your text.''

...which...doesn't really say much. It's practically meant as a hub to ask small requests, but the example it gives is rather horrible. "Can somebody clean up picture X" can simply be posted in said image's talk page, or even the Image Requests page, so that example, to me, is outdated and not useful at all. However, the Heart Containers subtitle-thingy says: "Zelda Wiki.org's community discussion and problem center." Which is what I think it SHOULD be (minus the "problem center" part, but I'll get to that in just a bit).

Here's what I think: The Heart Container should be a page for discussing large, upcoming wiki projects, changes that should be made to the wiki, and new implementations to the wiki (such as the nav templates with tabs that was implemented not long ago). Allow me to give some examples right from the archives of both THC and HC. The Heart Container would cover topics such as:


 * 1) TWW Nintendo Gallery Project (THC3)
 * 2) Japanese Standardization (THC3)
 * 3) Comprehensive Soundtrack List (HC9)
 * 4) What to do with Delimiters (Parenthetical descriptors) (HC9)
 * 5) Control Schemes (HC9)
 * 6) New discussion system (HC9)
 * 7) Name Change: Keep "Zelda Wiki.org" or Become Simply "Zelda Wiki" (THC3)
 * 8) Put at the top of the page (along with the "This Wiki Contains Spoilers" that link templates exist) (THC3)
 * 9) Items template (HC9)
 * 10) Rings in the Oracle Series (THC2)
 * 11) This current proposal of overhauling our community pages would also go in The Heart Container

...you get the idea (I hope!). Basically, any big projects that cannot be discussed on a certain article's talk page. Think of this as the place where active editors, admins, and patrollers go to and see if there are any new ideas proposed to the wiki so that they can comment on them and such.

So now, what about Hyrule Castle? Hyrule Castle, in my opinion, should cover topics such as miscellaneous questions that users might have to the staff, pointing out problems that users might be having with the wiki (can't get a page to load, don't know how to upload an image, etc.), feedback, and userbox/signature requests . In all, it would be a place where new members can get their questions resolved by more experienced editors. Having trouble getting a template to work correctly? Post it in HC. Having trouble uploading a new version of an image? Post it in HC. Need help with making your userpage awesome? Post it in HC.

Any changes that will be made will mean that we'll need to rewrite the introductory paragraph in both The Heart Container and Hyrule Castle to make these changes clear to the editors.

TL;DR version:
 * 1) Possibly change the name(s) of The Heart Container and/or Hyrule Castle so they won't have almost the same acronyms (thus reduce further confusion).
 * 2) Update the introductory paragraphs to THC and HC to reflect these changes and so users will know if their question/proposal is being posted in the correct place.
 * 3) Make The Heart Container all about the active editors: a place where new ideas to make the wiki better can be posted as well as any other proposals/changes.
 * 4) Make Hyrule Castle all about the new editors: a place where they can get their questions/problems resolved rather quickly and where they can give feedback to the staff members.

So, what do you guys think? Like this idea? Hate it? What changes do you guys propose? Comment away!!! --Dany36 16:23, 14 July 2011 (EDT)


 * Keep one at "Hyrule Castle", call the other "Castle Town". Hyrule Castle would be the more official one so that'd be for technical problems, and official wiki questions and that like the name change thing. Castle Town would be the new member and help thing. Expand the headers to define the purposes. Move the archives to actual structured archive pages instead of their own page. Some of this is from input of others, so I'm kind of relaying information. But I think it's a good idea. 21:02, July 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * I really like those divisions. How we summarize them and introduce them to users is the problem now. 02:47, 15 July 2011 (EDT)


 * Yeah. Cip is really good at writing that kind of stuff, but since he isn't here at the moment (I forget when he's coming back... :, I guess I could begin to rewrite the introductory paragraphs to Hyrule Castle and The Heart Container and see what you guys think. --Dany36 11:11, 15 July 2011 (EDT)


 * Well, I rewrote the intro paragraphs to both Hyrule Castle and The Heart Container. Check it out here. Any suggestions are welcomed! --Dany36 02:20, 17 July 2011 (EDT)

What to do with the current Castle Town project page?
Some users suggested that we simply dump it. I initially agreed on that, but upon looking at this, I think I've changed my mind! If we can simply expand on what Steve was working on, then it should be fine (Steve has gone MIA again as far as I know, so I hope he wouldn't mind if we kind of took over? :P ). It's kind of cool that new users can have a hub where they can check out how they can get involved in helping the wiki out (working on stubs, articles that need attention, getting involved in projects, etc.), as well as seeing what else the wiki has to offer (YouTube page, NIWA, etc.)

I'm not too good with advanced coding, so all I can do is provide ideas on how we can improve upon Steve's Castle Town idea. This of course means that we will have to stick with the name of Castle Town and decide another name for the current Hyrule Castle page (see discussion below).

So, are we going to keep the Castle Town project page and improve it? Get rid of it? Leave it as is? -- Dany36 17:41, 14 July 2011 (EDT)


 * In my opinion, the place is, or it has a potential to be useful. It is, or it should be serving as the starting place for newer users to know what to do, with directions to the Help Guide and Hyrule Castle for specific questions, and also a place that helps all kinds of users get involved or pick a task, with directions to the Image Request, Heart Container, and a To-do list. All it needs is a bit of cleaning, re-organizing, and some additions and subtractions to be perfectly useful. 07:44, 16 July 2011 (EDT)


 * I agree completely. :D I guess I didn't see the potential before because our current Castle Town page is...well...lacking, but like I said, improving upon Steve's Castle Town idea should make the place way more useful for new users than it is right now. Dany36 10:52, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Name Changes
As Matt mentioned above me, we are thinking of changing the names of Hyrule Castle and The Heart Container to reflect the ideas I mentioned in the previous subsection. So far, the suggestions have been:


 * Change Hyrule Castle to Castle Town (or Castle Town Square)
 * This could be a problem if we decide to stick with the current Castle Town page. If we are planning on keeping it, I suggest Hyrule Castle be renamed to something like Telma's Bar, Milk Bar, Cafe Bar...something along those lines. Castle Town is the hub of all community pages, while a bar (or whatever we choose) is a specific place where folks go to talk about whatever and stuff like that. Anyway, I know it might seem kind of lame, but hey, I'm just throwing ideas!! :P


 * Change The Heart Container to Hyrule Castle (or any other high-ranking place)
 * Other suggestions I can think of or Chamber of Sages, Sacred Grove (awesomesecret place for users to talk about awesomesecret projects?!), Temple of Light etc... Again, just coming up with whatever else I can think of.

Like Abdul had mentioned in the Skype chat, this is to show that (and I quote) "Town Square is for the small things new users ask, while the higher-rank one is for big projects and ideas." Don't like the name suggestions? Then feel free to throw in any new ones! -- Dany36 17:41, 14 July 2011 (EDT)


 * I really like Milk Bar. We want to stay general with the names so we can always stay current and prevent alienating members who haven't played the game. Plus milk is a staple in the Legend of Zelda! Nothing sticks out with the second one, though. Hyrule Castle would do. By the way, what will happen to Pieces of Heart? I assume it would also get a name change. I'm thinking Door of Time or Temple of Time, because you can see all the archived stuff we did in the past. 02:47, 15 July 2011 (EDT)


 * Ohhh I had forgotten about Pieces of Heart. I'm leaning towards Door of Time because of what it did in TP, though. XD We'll eventually have to vote on the new names, so keep those suggestions coming! --Dany36 11:11, 15 July 2011 (EDT)


 * In my opinion, Castle Town should stay with some reworking, and should also keep its name. The name "Castle Town" gives me the impression that it houses/leads to other places, just like the ones in the game which leads to places like Hyrule Castle, and houses places like bars, shops, and all that. So the name should stay.
 * Hyrule Castle can also keep its name, because once again, it's kind of fitting. But The Heart Container should be changed to something else, possibly to the name of one of the many pubs/bars/taverns, or even inns and other places from the game. Some examples are Cafe Bar, Mercay Tavern, Mama's Cafe, and even other places like Happy Hearth Inn.
 * Pieces of Heart doesn't even need to stay, as it serves only one purpose. The archives should be separated and added at the top of the respective project's page. For example, Hyrule Castle's archive could be added on it own page at the top. Alternatively, if the first idea is not implemented, all the archives could simply be accessible from Castle Town.
 * One more thing - even if it is completely unrelated, how about renaming the Help Guide to Royal Hyrule Library? 07:50, 16 July 2011 (EDT)


 * I agree on the first point, but as for Hyrule Castle, we're thinking that should be the "bar" kind of place instead of the Heart Container due to the changes in purpose that HC and The Heart Container are going to have, as mentioned here. So Hyrule Castle, meant for new members to get their questions quickly resolved, will become the "bar" place, while the Heart Container, meant for active editors to discuss wiki projects, will become Hyrule Castle. I like the Royal Hyrule Library idea, though! -- Dany36 10:57, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Other Issues
First of all, I'd like to say how wonderful it is that we're finally doing something about these Community Pages. Thank God for being a progressive Wiki! All these ideas sound wonderful. I like the idea of keeping Castle Town and revamping it, having Hyrule Castle for the important issues, Milk Bar for what is currently Hyrule Castle, and Door of Time of the archives. That seems to be the general consensus so far anyway.

Now, Abdul brought this up on Skype a while back: What do we do with the Main Talk Page? Everything there belongs in either the soon-to-be "Milk Bar" (or whatever we end up naming it) or "Hyrule Castle"—the new one, not the current. Shouldn't we then merge the main talk page into the two community pages? The Main discussion page seems to be the place where people go when they don't know where else to go. In that case, couldn't we make some kind of disambiguation page out of it to help direct users to the proper community page? Either that or get rid of it entirely and advertise the community pages more.

Also, if we're going to give the archives a new name and structured pages as Matt mentioned, shouldn't we clean them up as well? I think they could be organized a bit better, especially if we're to merge the main discussion page, which has archives of its own. I guess what I mean by organizing is moving sections from one community page archive to another where it belongs (while still keeping them in chronological order, of course) and making all the different archives more or less uniform in size. Maybe that's in part what Matt meant; I don't fully understand what having "structured archive pages" entails.

Just some more things to think about moving forward. 14:52, 20 July 2011 (EDT)

One other thing: This community page reform is going to require a new set of banners and at least a few new logos. 15:02, 20 July 2011 (EDT)


 * I agree about setting the Main Page's talk page as a disambiguation link to both the Milk Bar and Hyrule Castle. We'll have to lock the page, of course. :P Dany36 10:20, 22 July 2011 (EDT)


 * I agree with the idea of linking to the "Milk Bar" from the Main Page's talk page, because that is where people would go for asking for help and asking most questions about the wiki itself. However, I was wondering if nobody thought the idea of adding the archives of Hyrule Castle and Milk Bar to their own pages is a good idea, because I've seen it in talk pages, and it works nicely there. Then the Pieces of Heart section wouldn't even be needed. Just wanting opinions... 22:15, 22 July 2011 (EDT)


 * Hmmm...you mean, having the archives in its talk page like we do for normal articles? I think it'd be best to just keep the archives separate, otherwise we might have some people posting their question/comment in the talk page rather than the project page itself. :c Dany36 21:52, 24 July 2011 (EDT)

POLL TIMES!!! Deciding on New Names
Since most people seem to agree on the changes, we need to get decide on the new names for the current Hyrule Castle and The Heart Container. Although most people agree that The Heart Container should be Hyrule Castle, the new name for Hyrule Castle hasn't really been decided yet. So here we go!

''Sign (using ) next to the name that you prefer. If the name that you prefer isn't listed, feel free to add it. Please be aware of the new functions that these pages will have so that you may choose the appropriate name (see above for page functions). Poll will end on July 27, 2011.'' --Dany36 14:37, 22 July 2011 (EDT)

New Name for Hyrule Castle:
 * Cafe Bar
 * Milk Bar - Dany36, Ekim, AtrumLevis,, ,
 * Mercay Tavern
 * Mama's Cafe
 * Telma's Bar -

New Name for The Heart Container:
 * Hyrule Castle - Dany36,, AtrumLevis, , ,
 * Chamber of Sages - Ekim
 * Temple of Light
 * Sacred Grove -

New Name for Pieces of Heart:
 * Temple of Time - AtrumLevis,
 * Door of Time - Dany36, Ekim,, ,

New User
Ok this is my first post so im just gunna be doing some stuff about zelda on this so if you want just stay tuned um ya so to start lets talk about zelda stuff like sheik. God sheik is so annoying he just teaches you songs in OOT and is all like. "Use this song to get back here because your incapable of doing it your self so ya see you later." than flashes and is gone lol wut. well thats the end of my first post
 * Oookay, .... but can you take this comment to a forum, please? This page is meant to discuss things related to the wiki itself. Also, remember to sign. -- 00:55, 12 July 2011 (EDT)

Yea, essentially to echo K2L: take this to a forum. If you wanna check out some good forums, check out our Mastermind Affiliates, they have a lot of forum sections where you can discuss such topics, thanks! 10:24, 23 July 2011 (EDT)

Masterminds RSS
Hey all I was check out the front page and releazed the mastermind RSS feed doesn't Work. a fix would be great. Jrmet1999 00:02, 19 July 2011 (EDT)


 * This issue deals with an external RSS service. The only ones who have access to it are ZU and ZI webmasters, I think. So we can't do a thing about it unless they do so. Sorry. 22:38, 22 July 2011 (EDT)

Comparison gudeline suggestion
I know there are other pending discussions, and admittedly more important than this one, I simply try to present what would become a major problem in the future if it's not handled in time. Lately, there has been some controversy regarding game comparisons. What I mean by this is that, in the Trivia sections of some articles (or, until recently, even in the lead text itself!), there are certain comparisons that are either unclear, unjustified, or simply put upside down (literally, more on this later). Suppose, for example, that I'm editing the Sand Temple page. Currently, the page makes a brief comparison to Mutoh's Temple, mostly in regards of the shape, structure and design of both of them. No problems here, the comparison is indeed interesting. But now look at this edit to the Desert Palace page, it's unacceptable. It's saying that Desert Palace is very similar to Stone Tower Temple, which is false. Desert Palace is from ALTTP, which came in 1992, exactly 8.5 years before MM came with its Stone Tower Temple. Another example comes from the Forest Temple article, where the music of the dungeon is compared to that of City in the Sky (never mind that OOT came in '98, and TP in '06). As petty as this seems (or even is), it's becoming so common that it's getting out of hand. Right now I'll edit those pages, hoping that no more of this continues happening. -- 19:03, 23 July 2011 (EDT)


 * I don't quite follow you here, K2L. Just because ALTTP comes before MM doesn't make the similarity between the two dungeons any less real, no? Same goes for your other example. There's a difference between something being based on another thing and something resembling something else. By saying that the Desert Palace is similar to the Stone Tower Temple, we aren't automatically implying that it was based on the Stone Tower Temple, which is obviously impossible, but rather the opposite, which is quite possible; although the similarity could be coincidental, which is why we say they look like each other and leave it at that.


 * Besides that, though, you are quite right; people do tend to make rather far-fetched comparisons. The addition of that kind of trivia is something that relies entirely on the contributor's sense of judgement. Because of that, there's not much we could do to prevent these things from happening. It's a case by case thing. We just have to deal with them as we go along. 11:33, 24 July 2011 (EDT)
 * Check the diffs I indicated, notice that the articles used to say "The Desert Palace is similar to Stone Tower Temple because of ..... ", which is illogical since the Desert Palace didn't borrow anything from a dungeon that appears in a game that hadn't been released yet! That's what I mean, same for what was written on Goron Mines, the article said that its music was "similar to that of Snowpeak Ruins", which is incorrect since Goron Mines appears first, and therefore it's Snowpeak Ruins that borrows the music from Goron Mines. -- 14:59, 24 July 2011 (EDT)
 * To clarify, one thing cannot be similar to another if it comes first. I cannot say that Groundhog Day is similar to Majora's Mask due to the concept of time looping because it came first, the comparisons are only valid from the future to the past, not the other way around. -- 15:02, 24 July 2011 (EDT)