Talk:Midna

Theories About Midna
Deleted that entire section. It was awful and seemed to reflect on the author's beliefs and opinions more than that of the general public. Using statements such as "hopefully not" and "predictable" is inappropriate, and claiming certain objects look like breasts and that Majora's voice is "girly" is equally inappropriate. I can rewrite it, if nobody else wants to. ~vox

Who likes Midna better, her first form or her real form?


 * Personally, I liked her first form. But I have a tendancy to like the weird looking characters. For example, Medli was my favorite character in The Wind Waker. Anyways, onto my real point, which will be stated below...

I like her in her real form, she looks pretty. Her makeup looks similar to the Japanese Makeup used in Kabuki.

I like the Imp form better.--4.153.26.129 19:46, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

Ooh...It's so hard for me to choose! The personalities of the two are definitely linked-Imp form is so cool but true form is so beautiful. ZeldaGirl96 18:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I prefer the imp one. For some reason I love inhuman females. If you look carefully at her true form you would notice that she is either wearing a very tight shirt thing, or is "topless".Ganondox 20:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)}

I don't like her at the end of the game. She is more nice after Link saves her. I prefer her as an imp. Snakeboss14 21:15, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Happy Midna?
What the heck is with that weird, bright, and happy Midna picture? o_O Is that official art? It's way to cheery to really capture Midna, I think. --Jase 15:47, 19 January 2007 (CST)

I found a nice pic of midna and put the old on in a gallery similar to the ones I made for link Zelda and Ganon.71.183.44.244 17:05, 9 February 2007 (CST)

Midna's voice isn't girly. And some of the info given a while ago was completely wrong until somebody changed it. Whoever write that was expressing their opinion, not everyone on the whole.

She looks cool in both her forms by the way! She's got to be my fave character. :)

Princess Midna
Okay, so I'm fine with this article being called either Midna or Princess Midna, but I kinda want to make something clear for myself (have been wanting to do that for a while now).
 * Personally, I believe that if someone puts his hand, voluntarily and knowingly, in liquid oxygen, fire, a hungry tiger's mouth, acid, or a shredder (turned on), that person is simply stupid. I do not believe they can complain anywhere that there was no sign or person telling them they'd lose their hand if they'd do that.
 * That said, why do we have spoiler warnings and the like? If somewhere is written "story" or "synopsis" and I read it, it's my own stupid fault that I spoil the story for myself. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia about the Zelda Universe, right? (correct me if I'm wrong. I couldn't find a "What this is and what this not is" page). Just who would come here, looking for an article or articles that he/she knows are very likely to spoil something for them? Just WHAT would such a person expect to find? When I had not played TP yet, I stayed away from the TP boards. It's common sense.
 * So, just as a question, why do we put warning signs everywhere? Wouldn't it in general be handier to put one big warning sign on the front page, rather than many scattered all over the site in articles that are bound to spoil it for you if you read them while not having played/finished the game yet. Midna, Princess Midna; I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Just for the sake of a true encyclopedic article, I don't think anyone should worry about that very small group of idiots that do not know the meaning of "encyclopedia". IfIHaveTo 14:50, 18 November 2007 (EST)


 * I take your point; most of what is written on the wiki is a spoiler of one type or another. Therefore, I think the template should be used sparingly, only for major spoilers (by which I mean those which entirely spoil either the game's ending, or it's major plot twist/reveal). But I do think it's essential that we still have them. I have played 11 Zelda titles, of which I have completed 8, so for me there is little left to spoil. But I expect that's not true of many readers here. And you have to bear in mind that the wiki is a hugely varied mix of articles, some of which relate to one game, others to many, a large proportion of which do not specify which game the pertain to. So the risk of running across a major spoiler for a game you may wish to play un-spoiled is high. In my view, anything we can do to lessen that makes this a more agreeable place to be, and I don't find that the warnings impair my enjoyment of an article. (NB, just my opinion, not necessarily right :) --Adam 15:58, 18 November 2007 (EST)

Spoiler
Why did you move the spoiler warning, the top part reveals that Midna is not an imp. Wouldn't that be considered a spoiler?.--Link hero of light 23:41, 23 January 2008 (EST)

I will move it back--Zanramon 13:26, 24 January 2008 (EST)

Deperate Hour
I would really appreciate it if someone could find me a music sheet for Midna's Desperate hour. Could somebody do it for me, please.--Link hero of light 20:50, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Relationship With Link?
It seems to just be a section devoted for fan speculation. This seems to run rampant in this wiki. Unless it can be delivered more factually, I propose it removed. She also has relationships with Zelda, Zant, and Ganon, and those aren't there either. Simply ship fodder. Saibh 20:38, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

But it's a rather important relationship and questioned. There is a whole article based on LinkxZelda. Shouldn't MidnaxLink at least get a section about it? I don't think it should be removed.--Link hero of light 22:51, 12 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Aye, but it's a much different kind of relationship than with Ganon or Zant; she is one of the few characters in the series that has been heavily hinted at loving Link, and as such is an exception. So that fact should get at least a small mention in the article. --Ando (Talk) 12:03, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree--a mention, but the "relationships" should be expanded upon, and it shouldn't just focus on trying to prove that Midna and Link have something goin' on. They have a friendship, a camaraderie--that's far more notable (as Midna is nothing if not an extension of Link) than a possible ship. I won't remove it quite yet, but I do think there should be edits. Saibh 23:18, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

If you were to rewrite the section, what would it look like and what would you change?--Link hero of light 23:58, 19 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Like I said, Midna doesn't just have a relationship with Link. It needs to elaborate on other people as well. Notably Zelda and Zant--Ganon as well, most likely. And, like I said (again), Link and Midna aren't just double entendres. Their relationship evolves, they're friends far before anything romantic comes to play. They don't actually like each other in the beginning. The section should mainly be about that, with a brief mention devoted to any romantic implications. Saibh 14:28, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

I articles about major characters, Super Mario Wiki has a section devoted to relationships ot that person with other people. Maybe we could add this to Midna's article. In fact we could add it to all major zelda character's articles. Zelda, Link, Impa, Ganon and Tingle should have this.

Here's an example abot Princess Daisy's Relationships taken from Super Mario Wiki.

Peach
Main article: Princess Peach Peach is the most notable relationship Daisy has with any of the Mario characters. Daisy has been known to be good friends with Peach ever since her big comeback appearance in Mario Tennis for the Nintendo 64. If something involves partners in the Mario spin-offs the two will usually be a team. Naturally, the two of them enjoy a friendly rivalry, but for the most part they enjoy each other's company. Like Luigi, the two share good chemistry in the game Mario Superstar Baseball, and Daisy is Peach's team's co-captain. By their friendship, one can assume that the Mushroom Kingdom and Sarasaland have very good foreign relations. Nintendo's Mario Power Tennis Website says that Daisy is Peach's sister in arms, obviously meaning more of a 'brotherly love' type of relationship than an actual blood relationship.

Mario
Main article: Mario Daisy was rescued by Mario from the clutches of Tatanga in Super Mario Land, and she rewarded him with a kiss upon her rescue. Mario has never explicitly expressed an interest in her, nor has Daisy to him. The two are nothing more than good friends. However, in Mario Party 5, Mario and Daisy are given the name "Nice Couple" when paired together, implying that Daisy and Mario could make a good match. They do not share player chemistry at all in Mario Superstar Baseball.

Luigi
Main article: Luigi Luigi is rumored to be Daisy's love interest, and vice versa. As previously noted, one of Daisy's only appearances between Super Mario Land and Mario Tennis was as Luigi's caddy in NES Open Tournament Golf, just as Peach was Mario's caddy. This event would be the first implication of a relationship between the two, spawning the rumors that are mentioned in Daisy's trophy biography in Super Smash Bros. Melee: "After her appearance in Mario Golf, some gossips started portraying her as Luigi's answer to Mario's Peach." In Mario Tennis for the N64, Daisy is Luigi's doubles partner when he is selected for the doubles tournament. In the Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour introduction, Daisy calls upon Luigi in the same way Peach calls upon Mario. When Luigi and Daisy are paired up in past recent Mario Party games, their team name is "Steady Sweeties". In Mario Superstar Baseball, Luigi and Daisy are "buddy players," and they share good chemistry, whereas Daisy does not share any chemistry with Mario. In Mario Power Tennis when Daisy wins a tournament she appears suddenly on roller-skates, and skates past Luigi right after saying to him, "Hey Sweetie". Nintendo has not explicitly stated anything regarding their official status (though they do often drop hints). As a result, the Luigi-Daisy relationship is still a mystery and is widely speculated and debated by fans.

Others
Wario and Tatanga were the antagonists who both planned and initiated the kidnapping of Daisy, one would assume Daisy has had some sort of dislike of the two. This may be so for Wario, as when he unleashes his special gas ability on her in Mario Strikers Charged Daisy yells at him. Daisy and Wario have had team names in Mario party series such as: Mischief-Makers and Wilted Flowers; both names seem to indicate there could be a lasting relation between the two.

Waluigi and Daisy seem to have a shadowed relationship with one another which may be speculation or due to the fact the two started to appear as regulars in the Mario series around the same time. Although Daisy has been shown to have negative reactions to Waluigi in games like Mario Superstar Baseball and Mario Strikers Charged, certain team names such as Awkward Date ,Double-Facers, and Skinny Stars seem to suggest a wide variety of opinions.

Other characters like Birdo, Toadette, Yoshi, and other characters playable throughout the Mario series all seem to, at one point or another, suggest they have some sort of positive relationship with Daisy in the Marioverse. Examples include team names such as: Gallopin' Gal-Pals, Shopping Buddies, Tomboy Trouble, Barn-Builders, and more.

Midna's could look like this.

Link
Some fans have suggested that Midna was romantically interested in Link, others suggest that their relationship was just a platonic friendship. During one cut-scene, Midna places her hand on Link's cheek for almost a full four seconds. In another cut-scene, Link cradles Midna in his arms and the two lock eyes for a few moments. Link also reaches after Midna in a few cutscenes and is shocked when she is destroyed by Ganon. At the end of the game, Midna says, "Link... I... See you later". This leaves the impression that Midna was about to tell Link she loved him, but lost her nerve to publicly state her love at the last second.
 * Like I said, they are first and foremost a team, a camaraderie. That seems more like a "Romance" sort of section, than a relationship one...How about (with proper spoiler warnings):

Upon meeting Link while he is in wolf form, and Midna suggests a deal: she will help him escape from his prison for his help with something. (Maybe there should be a direct quote there.) Midna is often condescending to Link, frequently jeering at him. As they further along on their adventure, Midna and Link grow closer. When Zant attacks both Link and Midna, she pleads for him to help himself, and carry on with their quest. Because of the heroism of both Link and Zelda, the latter having sacrificed herself to save Midna, she gains a true respect for the people of the light.

From then on, Link and Midna maintain a strong friendship, and she is far less disdainful and more aimable to him. Towards the end, Midna sacrifices herself as a last desperate attempt to kill Ganon, sending Link and Zelda to safety. She appears to be defeated however, and Link mourns her death after killing Ganon. Shortly after the Light Spirits restore her to life {Actually, I'm not sure if she was dead at all.), and she shows her true form, joking "What? Say something. Am I so beautiful...that you have no words left?" (I'm pretty sure that's the quote, but someone should double-check.)

Midna, Zelda, and Link return to the Mirror of Twilight, where she breaks the Mirror, sealing the world of Light and Twilight from each other forever. Her parting words are "Link... I... See you later."

Some fans of the series have noticed a possible love connection between Midna and Link. Some have interpreted a scenes when Midna lays a hand on Link's cheek, or when he cradles her and they gaze at each other for several seconds. No romance is ever explicitly stated, and many material is objectionable when used as "evidence". (I'm not really sure where to go from this.)
 * I don't really like how it's written, but I think that's more to lines it should go.

It is commonly known that the "I..." statement was mistranslated however there are many rumours that it was a additional clue given the by Nintendo USA and it had to be ok with the the original Nintendo


 * "Commonly known"? This is the first I've heard of it. I'd like a source, please. --Ando 00:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Zelda
I'm not sure what to say here we can decide that if you agree with this.


 * Maybe something like this?:

When the player first meets Zelda, Midna addresses her as "Twilight Princess", and seems to be very aggressive and supercilious of her and her decision to choose Hyrule being turned to Twilight over death. She often mocks Zelda {There should be references here to clarify.} throughout the game. It isn't until Zelda sacrifices herself, imbuing Midna with her Light to save her life that she gains respect for her and the people of the Light.

During the final battle, Ganondorf possesses Zelda's body, and Midna tries to use her own to protect the princess. When this fails, Midna looks ready to attack Zelda, but softens and sadly places her hand on Zelda's cheek, and is attacked by Ganon's Puppet Zelda. When she awakens from the attack, Midna uses the Fused Shadows to eridicate Ganon's presence from Zelda, placing her out of harms way. When Dark Beast Ganon is defeated, the light Zelda gave Midna is returned to her. Zelda says that she and Midnas hearts were as one briefly, and she understands Midna's suffering.

When Ganondorf resurfaces later, Midna sacrifices herself to attempt to defeat him, and sends Zelda and Link away to safety. Although it appears as if she has died, Midna is later returned to her true form after Ganon's defeat. At the Mirror of Twilight, Midna intends to leave, but Zelda says that she believes light and shadow were intended to mix. The true Twilight Princess says "your words are kind, and your heart is true", but departs regarless, shattering the Mirror.


 * Probably needs editing. Saibh 21:31, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Midna and Zelda's hearts "were as one" as Zelda said, perhaps a example of light and shadow mixed. Midna might as well be a symbol of the mix, in a ironic way. ZeldaGirl96 18:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Zant
Zant was heir to the Twilight Realm's throne before Midna was chosen to rule in place of him. This made him furious. Zant out of anger turned Midna into an imp. He then became ruler of the Twilight Realm. Midna later murdered Zant.


 * It never says Zant was heir to the Twilight Realm. He just believed he deserved to be ruler next, and the Twili saw that he only had greed.

"The Usurper King Zant turned the Twilight Princess, Midna, into an imp to prevent her from retaking the throne and as punishment for defying him. Midna seeks nothing else than to destroy him, using Link to collect pieces of the Fused Shadows that may defeat Zant. Nothing is known of Zant and Midna's previous relationship, but it is nothing but hatred when the gamer begins."


 * Maybe like that? Eh... Saibh 21:37, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Perhaps that would work. You can't really be sure if Zant was next in line for the throne. It is true-Midna's goal was completly based on destroying Zant in the beginning, but slowly as the game builds Midna feels respect for the people of the Light she tries to help Zelda and Link, even sacrificing herself for them.

...I don't know why I said this-ZeldaGirl96 18:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Ganondorf
See what I said for Zelda. --Link hero of light 19:57, 20 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Maybe...

"Although Midna doesn't know it initially, it is Ganon who pulls the strings behind Zant, who overthrew Midna and changed her into an imp with Ganondorf's power. He intended to become ruler of both the Twilight and the Light, and Midna says to him she will do everything to deny him."


 * Not much of a relationship.


 * Is it more appropriate to use Ganon, or Ganondorf? I have a tendency to use the former, but I think I'm wrong. Saibh 21:42, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

I just changed it around a bit. I'm not sure if it's what you wanted. Tell me what you think, I personally like it just as much as before, if not better, great idea.--Link hero of light 21:28, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Er...changed what? Saibh 21:39, 20 March 2008 (EDT)


 * I think he meant this. So anyway, nice work, just needs some quotes/references throwing in where appropriate and it has the makings of a good section. I'd say this is definitely the way to go, as what you said is absolutely true; people have for too long misused relationship to mean only romance. Yes, this is one of the three main meanings of the word:
 * Connection or association.
 * Kinship; being related by blood or marriage.
 * A romantic or sexual involvement.
 * However, without quantifying it as romantic, the previous section was inaccurate and heavily biased (I never liked it, but held off from simply deleting because I couldn't envisage a better replacement). This new section balances the article nicely, and should improve the quality through future development. —Adam (talk) 06:39, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Okay I think we should add this to other major zelda character's articles. I'd like to do Tingle or Link next.--Link hero of light 10:51, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Zant-Midna blood tie
Now, I'm not allowed to rule it out since the game never says no, and I can sort of see where people say that, but... (Actually, in lieu of that dialogue below, I am. He "serves" in the household.)

"While it is never stated in the game, Zant and Midna both seem to belong to the royal family, hence Zant's expectation that he would ascend to the throne upon the death of the true Twilight King. However, the nature in which the throne is passed down amongst the Twili is unknown, and any blood ties between Midna and Zant are pure speculation."

Kay, first thing I did was make it sound less "even though they don't say it, everyone knows it"...because that's what the "While it is never stated in the game" sounds like to me. Better start off on a total-and-complete speculation note. There's only indication that the throne was passed to Midna because she was next in line. Besides that, we don't know that if takes the death of a Twilight (whose to say King, anyway?) Ruler to take the throne, unless I'm forgetting something.

I doubt Zant is a part of the royal family. He says, at one point: "And all of it was the fault of a useless, do-nothing royal family that had resigned itself to this miserable half-existence! I had served and endured in that depraved household for far too long, my impudent princess. And why, you ask? Because I believed I would be the next to rule our people! THAT is why! But would they acknowledge me as their king? No! And as such, I was denied the magic powers befitting our ruler." Saibh 11:32, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Picture
The picture I uploaded was ment to be the main picture, you got put it on before I could but changed it back. Why did you do that?--Toon Link 17:52, 2 April 2008 (EDT)


 * The problem he had with that picture was that it shows Midna's true form, right there for anyone who just opened the article to see. I know I had Midna's true form spoiled to me on accident when I was just looking up some info on Midna, so while spoilers are abound, they should be slightly more hidden than main picture. Your picture's still on the page, too, just not right there. --Ando (T : C) 17:59, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

Ando prety much summed it up. I put it on, but changed my mind. I'd like to have it up but, it's kind of the first thing you see, even before the spoler warning.--Link hero of light 18:05, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

Midna's Theme
It says in the trivia section that Midna's theme is Zelda's Lullaby inverted. What the hell? Being music oriented, I was immediately able to tell that this isn't true. And being a hardcore Zelda fan, of course, I also tested it out in Audacity to make ultra-sure that I was correct, thus eliminating the chances of future humiliation. XD So yeah, just wanted to put it out there first rather than delete the line right away, just in case. --Vyo 00:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, same notes in a different key? Possibly. Same notes reversed? Hell no. 23:55, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Thoughts
 Thoughts? 21:27, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Reference
Reference 3 isn't a strong reference. It only links to the song, but in no way supports that Midna hummed it during the game. Light Knight of ZU 02:16, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

From Deleted page
why does this article have to be deleted?


 * Where is the evidence that "Twilight Princess" is a title which has ever been applied to anyone except Midna? She is referred to as THE Twilight Princess; this article makes the assumption that it is also correct to refer to her as A Twilight Princess. --Adam 15:29, 4 January 2008 (EST)


 * 1) The info is questionable. May I ask why the titles "Twilight Prince" and "Twilight Queen" qould not exist?
 * 2) The title covers only half of the subject.
 * 3) The article goes pretty much like this: The Twilight Princess is the Princess of the Twilight Realm/Twili. That's pretty much going around in circles. Makes as much sense as having an article called "Zora Princess" and writing: Zora Princess is a title held by a princess of the Zora race.IfIHaveTo 03:46, 5 January 2008 (EST)

You are right, the information may be wrong. It only covers half the subject because it's a stub. I only created so whenever somebody clicked on the link that said Twilight Princess, it wouldn't direct them to the game.--Link hero of light 11:08, 5 January 2008 (EST)


 * I think I understand what you're getting at. The correct solution would have been to create a disambiguation page at Twilight Princess which links to both The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess and to Midna. However, IMO that would be a huge spoiler; TP is fairly unique in that it's title is in itself a large plot twist. Unlike previous games where the item or person to which the title refers is revealed very early in the game (usually almost immediately or else within the first few hours), the true identity of the Twilight Princess is not revealed until around 85% of the way through the game. Creating this kind of disambiguation page would be more or less the same as going to the Link's Awakening page and writing at the top IT'S ALL JUST A DREAM AND LINK WAKES UP AT THE END! As far as I'm concerned, it's the kind of information that you should have to dig about for a bit, not just stumble across. --Adam 13:14, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Was it really a surprise to anyone that Midna was the Twilight Princess? 0_o. Well, anyway, there is something to say for a disamb page, allthough I agree with the counter-argument. But what if we don't state on the disamb page that Midna is the TP? Like:
 * Twilight Princess can refer to two things:

IfIHaveTo 13:23, 5 January 2008 (EST)
 * 1) The game by that name: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, and
 * 2) The character holding the title in the aforementioned.

I agree, it's a good idea to create disamb page. And, although it wasn't a huge shock, it surprised me that Midna was the Twilight Princess. It surprised my little sister even more.--Link hero of light 14:16, 5 January 2008 (EST)


 * Sounds good, do it. (Just to be clear, by the spoiler I also meant the scene at the Mirror of Twilight with Midna's explanation of the events leading to her banishment). --Adam 14:28, 5 January 2008 (EST)

I did. Now this article can be deleted.--Link hero of light 14:52, 5 January 2008 (EST)