Talk:Skull Kid

I think that the Skull Kid from Majora's Mask is the same Skull Kid as the one Link gave the Skull Mask to, in Ocarina of Time. Maybe Skull Kid attacked the Happy Mask Salesman because he wanted one the masks he was carrying and was then drawn to the power of the Majora's Mask. Link of Vey 3/7/08


 * First off, use four tildes ( ~ ) to sign your posts. Yes I think that they are the same too. A lot of people do. But, unfortunately, there is no way to prove this. However, the statements in Majora's Mask made by the Skull Kid strongly suggest that they are one and the same. We may never know for sure, unless one of the developers comes out and says it. 14:25, July 3, 2008 (UTC)


 * I thought that it was pretty cut-and-dry, really. I mean, what more can you want? For him to just straight up say "You taught me Saria's Song :D :D :D"? Many things in the Zelda games are implied and accepted, and this is easily one of the most heavily-implied and impossible to disprove things I've seen yet. 20:08, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Way back when, I took part in a debate on this issue on the Gamewinners.com Zelda forum. Just about everyone there was thoroughly convinced that the Majora's Mask Skull Kid was not the same one in Ocarina of Time. At the time, uh, my debating skills were not up to par with how they are today. The debate dragged on for about two years. The few of us that thought that they were the same Skull Kid were beaten. Not by the other's sides logic, which was lacking, but because of the overwhelming number of people against us. Therefore, my side just fled from the battle, defeated. That debate made our little one here about "Midna Art" look like child's play in comparison. It was truly epic. 20:32, July 3, 2008 (UTC)

What the...? What, were they using logic like "He might not have been talking about Saria's Song" or something equally... not... good (I'm tired and lacking a proper vocabulary)? That's a pretty crazy argument, I wish I could have seen it. But I think that nowadays we pretty much all know that they're one and the same, yeah? 20:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Pretty much. Link looking for Navi or not in the beginning of Majora's Mask cropped up a few times in the debate too. The side opposing me had the same view of that as they did for the Skull Kid. Even though the in-game evidence strongly suggested that both of those theories were true, they failed to use their brains and look at the logic. Dumb people. I didn't say much on Navi then because I felt that the Skull Kid being the same was the stronger of the two theories. I don't think that the debate even exists anymore. I don't think that Gamewinners keeps their old forum topics that long. It has been... five years since the debate ended, I think. 20:49, July 3, 2008 (UTC)</sp


 * I've read the manga, and skullkid (or rather stalkid) acts a bit different. He has severe moodswings, more like MM stlkid than Oot stalkid... And it would make sense that navi was the one that he was looking for. After all, if a guilt-filled ball of light flew out the window but all else was well, "Hmm...I'm bored. I think I'll go looking for one of my friends...". Oh god, how could I be so stupid?? It could have been Saria, Kaepora Gaebora, even the cow that Malon put in front of his house...just as likely.--Claire 21:29, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm almost certain he is one of the OoT Skull Kids because at the beginning of the game cutscene, he looks at you and says; "Huh, this guy. Well it shouldn't be a problem." That right there implies that he knows you kinda... I guess.NintenJoe231 03:09, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Is it possible that the "fairy kid" the Skull Kid was referring to was actually the Termanian counterpart to Link, or even a Termanian Koriri? Granny's story makes it pretty clear that this Skull Kid is from Termina and has probably been there for a long time. Jimbo Jambo 17:17, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * True as that is, you've gotta remember that Skull Kid knows how to move between Hyrule and Termina. I mean, you technically START the game in Hyrule before falling into the portal to Termina. So I would say that while there may very well be a Terminan counterpart to Link that we don't know of, it's also still possible that Skull Kid visited the Lost Woods using the Termina / Hyrule portal. 22:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I has assumed the power of the mask allowed him to do that, but for all I know the portal had already been there for a long time. Jimbo Jambo 15:32, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

My theorie is that there is only 2 skull kids: The Skull Kid in Majora's Mask (the one that buys the skull mask from you supposedly) and the one you play the memory game with (the other one there is an illusion) ~Charlie P. ;) 00:14, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Get lost, become....
I thought the quote was that lost people would become a Stalfos. "You a stalfos, me a stalfos, everybody a stalfos..." that's from memory tho. 02:50, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I remember...actually, I think one of the Gossip Stones in the woods says that people who enter the woods without the guidance of a fairy turn into monsters. So I think the logic is if you don't have a fairy, you'll get lost, and then you'll turn into a monster. I can only imagine how that mushroom potion might have helped Grog avoid becoming a Stalfos - at least, that's what I gather it did, or was doing. Article needs more citations in any case. Jimbo Jambo 07:04, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Good point. I was thinking that Hylians becom Stalfos and Kokri becon Skull Kids. Skull "KID"-- and Kokri Never grow::up.Hylians DO. and since Grog is the only known person to have been turned into a Stalfo, it makes sense.Well, I just ::wanted to bring up my theory, sort of...But good point, I forgot about the fairy thing. ~Moshata, The Mistress~ 15:53, 28 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Navi also wonders if Skull Kids are what became of children who got lost in the woods. I would doubt they were Kokiri, but it would seem to imply that only children become Skull Kids, and thus, adults probably become Stalfos. Of course, Skull Kids and Stalfos are pretty different from one another, and it's hard to imagine a mid-ground between the two for people in between childhood and adulthood, but it's also kind of hard to imagine that there's a definite cut-off age where one loses the potential to become a Skull Kid and instead becomes a Stalfos — kids don't just poof turn into adults. Jimbo Jambo 20:08, 28 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, also don't forget that in Japanese, Skull Kid is "Stalkid" which would imply that yes, those who get lost are turned into Stalfos, it's just that kids get turned into "Stalkids" and adults are turned into Stalfos.

Manga
Does someone want to add a section for the manga story revolving around the skull kid? 19:41, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If no one else wants to, I'll do it..Zelda nexgen

Skull kid's Flute
Instruments play a big role in the Legend of Zelda seris. Hence forth should we make a mini-article for it? Or, at the very least, a paragraph about it? -- Ember Incubus - 06:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe a sentence or two about the continuity of the flute between games and its purpose, but I can't really see it going beyond that, especially since it is not a prominent instrument in the Zelda series. 07:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Common Enemy?
He's only thought twice (not counting OoT), and he appears in THREE games. Is that really a COMMON enemy???
 * You're right! I've removed it from the template. Also, don't forget to sign Zelda nexgen. Jeangabin 11:28, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Skull Kid Quantity Issue
I tend to agree with Ando in that Skull Kid knows how to use the portal between Termina and Hyrule. My best theory is that Skull Kid is a native of Termina, since it's indicated that was friends with the Giants. Unless he befriended them and they left in something close to a matter of seconds, the suggsested implication is that the Skull Kid in question is of Termina. Therefore, I wager he may have visited the Lost Woods at some point, probably repeatedly, shortly prior to the events of Ocarina of Time, where he became to some extend familiar to and with the nearby Kokiri inhabitants. I agree that the indications that Link and he have met before (in Hyrule) is strong and would be extremely difficult, if at all possible, to refute.

As another interesting thought, I seem to recall that the Skull Kid's pranks were initially a result of loneliness after the Giants' departure. Perhaps that's what prompted him to visit Hyrule in the first place; a desire to find friendship.

I further think that the Skull Kid present in Twilight Princess is the same one from Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time. Firstly, there doesn't seem to be any indication that Skull Kid is anything close to 'living', therefore age becomes most likely irrelivant. The fact that he plays Saria's Song seems to be a strong indication that they are one and the same. It may also explain why he assists Link. After all, I thought Skull Kid was supposed to dislike adults. Perhaps the Twilight Princess incarnation of Link reminds him of the Link he met during the days of Ocarina of Time (and subsequently Majora's Mask) where the two did establish something of the beginings of a friendship by most appearances.

As to whether or not there is a single Skull Kid, I'm less sure. It might be, however, that there are skull kids and then THE Skull Kid, in a similar vein to the fact that King Zora is obviously not the sole Zora. The Skull Kid who features prominently may be the leader (or even a random member of no particular societal significance) of the larger group of Skull Kids in general.

Ragnarok 02:01, 6 January 2011 (EST)

Separate pages for the Skull Kid of Majora's Mask and of Twilight Princess
The Skull Kid page is a race page, like the Goron page or Zora page. It seems inconsistent to me that the Skull Kid of Majora's Mask and of Twilight Princess don't have their own pages like any other characters (especially for characters of such importance), like the Mogmas have their own pages and so on. If that's fine, I'll take care of them. Itachou 08:57, 2 February 2012 (EST)

Well, it's true there were three Skull Kids, but one of them is the Skull Kid we know. He is the same person who appears in both the three games. As we all know, Skull Kid never ages, so he was able to return a century after the events of Majora's Mask, now as a sage of the Lost Woods/Sacred Grove. I think a page that focus on the character is great, which implies him from both Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess. Yes, I'll make the character page and change this page into an article about Skull Kid race.--Prince Ludwig 18:57, 13 February 2012 (EST)

Here it is: Skull Kid (character) It could be alot better if you could also help me improve the article too. I added Skull Kid's artwork from Majora's Mask since the game was more focused on the character where he was alot cooler too. ;) So, let's change this article.

Split Created Redundancy
There is a lot of redundancy between the two pages now that this has been split. Usually, before splitting a page like this, there should be some discussion outside of a comment or two, but since the deed is done (and it may have been for the better) we want to leave it as is, but these two pages now require substantial reconciliation between them. So unless that ask is undertaken and completed, the action may be reversed. --Xizor 23:16, 18 February 2012 (EST)


 * I know we usually have to talk this over, but it would be a lot better to go and do it before arguing like I did. But it is quite sure that no other users mind about this since the pages got split like you said, and this article will be about the Skull Kid species like the Kokiri and others.--Prince Ludwig 23:48, 18 February 2012 (EST)


 * Well honestly, we really do ask that you don't just go ahead and do this sort of thing in the future. It worked out this time, but this is an exception rather than the rule. Just like I said, make sure that the articles are both cleaned up to properly reflect this change you've made, because as they are right now, this is not the case. --Xizor 00:59, 19 February 2012 (EST)

Well, that depends whether it is urgent or not...Alright then. I'll be more carefull. I'll also have to search for links that lead to the Skull Kid race and change all the links concerning about the character into Skull Kid.


 * It's actually pretty urgent because otherwise we could easily merge the Skull Kid character and race pages since right now they are so similar. So yes, it is always advised that big changes like these are talked over instead of doing it without any consensus. --Dany36 21:42, 19 February 2012 (EST)
 * Edit: my bad, I see you already did most of the fixing. Good job on getting all of those disambiguation links! --Dany36 00:05, 20 February 2012 (EST)


 * Thanks Dany. :)--Prince Ludwig 12:09, 20 February 2012 (EST)

I'm going to be the bad guy and say that the split was unnecessary, and may warrant a re-merge. Look at the sections of Skull Kid (race). Only Ocarina of Time has any useful data, while Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess are links to the other article. The OOT section of both articles is nearly identical, along with trivia, gallery, etc. For Skull kid (character), the only new info is found in MM and TP. I think most users would like to have all the information easily accessible, but this split defeats that purpose. 13:11, 20 February 2012 (EST)


 * Seems that the pages still need lot of work, don't they...--Prince Ludwig 13:35, 20 February 2012 (EST)


 * Weeelll, I think the main problem here was that this split was done without any prior agreement on what should have been done. Let's see what other folks have to say, whether they should stay split or be merged back together. --Dany36 13:57, 20 February 2012 (EST)
 * Frankly, I think the split was unnecessary. There really isn't much to the "Skull Kid race" and the information was already readily available before the split. I think it should just be merged back together. 14:27, 20 February 2012 (EST)

Stop right there. Don't ask anything. They haven't said a word yet, but it seems very well that it's okay as it is. After all, an article about the species where it also talks about a character is not good. So it must be split like you guys suggested before.--Prince Ludwig 15:09, 20 February 2012 (EST)


 * I'm sorry Ludwig, but I don't remember us reaching a consensus on this. In fact, I agree with Abdullah and Pakkun on this one. It doesn't make sense to have information about a single person on two different articles (Skull Kid from MM is one of the Skull Kids from OOT). Yeah, it would be nice to give the MM Skull Kid more exposure instead of sticking him between two sections about less-important counterparts, but I still wouldn't say that's reason enough to split the article. 18:13, 22 February 2012 (EST)

Guys, it's really annoying that users like you are always against one of my edits, especially in the other wiki. And it's reasonable enough to be splitted into two, and there are other reasons too why it should be splitted into two. This article is gonna look much more like a real article that talks about races, especially the character's too need some more changes and improvements for now. Now I want to ask you this; since you guys wanted it to be splitted into two like I do, why one of you guys changed your opinions on the split? It still seems very well that much users don't mind about this.--Prince Ludwig 19:54, 22 February 2012 (EST)


 * Don't ask anything. They haven't said a word yet, but it seems very well that it's okay as it is. After all, an article about the species where it also talks about a character is not good. So it must be split like you guys suggested before.


 * I'm not sure you understand how wikis work around here... Usually, for small changes, a consensus isn't really needed, but for a big change like this, there MUST be a discussion about it. Just because one member suggested that there be a split (so it's not "you guys suggested" ;p ), to which you only agreed, doesn't mean that no one else cares and that you should go ahead and do it. I hope I'm not trying to sound like I'm scolding you, but this is how things work around the wiki! Anyway, no one here changed their minds: Xizor didn't really have an opinion on it, and I don't either. Three members have raised their concerns about the split being unnecessary, so we will have to continue waiting for other users' input on this before we can reach a decision of whether or not to merge this back together.


 * I hope this doesn't discourage you from continuing to edit the wiki, but I hope you understand that the wiki is a collaborative process and not all of it can be built by one person alone. :) --Dany36 20:38, 22 February 2012 (EST)

Actually, you didn't sound like you scolded me, you just did it. o.o' And I'm a bit discouraged. I admit, I was hasty for the two articles to be split since they don't fit well, unless the other one was a species. But for something such as splitting these two up, it should be okay (despite the name of the character. Otherwise it really should have been really easy and why it'll be so obvious why it should be splitted up). But I'm sorry. Honestly, I know the wiki's rules. I just got carried away.--Prince Ludwig 21:21, 22 February 2012 (EST)


 * Don't worry, man. We all make mistakes. I'm sure some of our staff have done the same thing before. Just learn from your mistake and discuss large changes first. Anyway, do you give us permission to merge the two articles? 12:46, 23 February 2012 (EST)

You ask that to me, sorry but no.--Prince Ludwig 14:57, 23 February 2012 (EST)

Gonna weigh in here; there was no need for a split. I can't think of any reason for a split. Skull Kids simply aren't common enough. It would be kind of like splitting Vire into two pages because the one in Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages is a single recurring enemy while other Vires are common (although I suppose there's an argument for splitting as there is a difference between enemy and boss templates, but thats another issue I suppose). I know Skull Kid is a more prominent villain, but it was only in one game. Its just not necessary, I can't think of any other pages where we do the same thing. Stick everything into the single "Skull Kid" page, I say. 15:18, 23 February 2012 (EST)

The only game where more than a single Skull Kid appeared was in Ocarina of Time when the notable character appeared more than three games himself, while the Vire you're talking about appeared in two linked games which makes them as one as the Oracle series. If that's the case, the split wins and the merge loses since the races do not have much more important things to talk about after Ocarina of Time.--Prince Ludwig 15:42, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 * I am not following your logic in the slightest here. The "notable character" is neither confirmed for definite to be the same one as in Ocarina of Time (arguably Link never taught a song to any of the Skull Kids in OoT, like the one in MM claims), and certainly not the same one as in Twilight Princess. You're just assuming that is the case. And even if he WAS, that still doesn't make either side worthy of being split, especially as its confusing to have two articles with the exact same name both referring to Skull Kid as a race and a character when he is both.
 * Besides, if we go down this route, then what's stopping us from splitting Link into multiple pages for each individual Link? It sets a bad precendant. 16:03, 23 February 2012 (EST)

I'm going to formally close this discussion. Before we lost edits due to the server change, Noble Wrot said he opposed the split, and Ganondorfdude11 said that if we keep the split, we have to improve the pages (or something to that effect). In conclusion, we have 5 people opposing the split and 1 person supporting it. Majority rules that the pages be merged. It's a shame that you'll lose all your work, but that's why we discuss issues before implementing them. Please don't think this means that we're against you. 16:47, 23 February 2012 (EST)

Skull Kid's need of improvements
If we talked about this before splitting this up, you would disagree, wouldn't you? I know you guys were upset because I splitted it up into two without having a discussion, and merging them back will calm down one of the Wiki's users' madness. Even though one of you denies that. And if I improve both articles, there would be more possibilities that you wouldn't merge them back. Which means, one of you are against me. Now, that's the fourteenth time users have to disagree with me and my edits in the Wikia.

Let's take a deep breath...You know what, I'll tell you this to make us all satisfied, I could turn this article into a mixed article that talks more about the character and his kind. So, what do you say?--Prince Ludwig 17:40, 23 February 2012 (EST)


 * I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you mean about mixed article. Do you mean dividing it into one section about the Skull Kid in MM, and one section for the other Skull Kids?


 * And I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but I hope you realize that this is nothing personal; no one is against you, nor would anyone have any reason to be. Abdullah, Pakkun, Dany, Noble Wrot, Fizzle, and myself have all been editors at the wiki for a fairly long time. I assure you, we are only trying to do what is best for the wiki, nothing more, nothing less. Believe me, we would never revert someone's edits without reason or to spite a user. It's just sometimes people have different views about what is best for the wiki, that's just the way it goes. Majority rules, and that goes for everyone, whether it's a new user or a long-time administrator.


 * If you feel like your edits were wrongly reverted, please feel free to ask any of the Zelda Wiki Staff about it such as Abdullah, Pakkun, Dany, or myself, and we'll gladly discuss why the edits were reverted. 18:38, 23 February 2012 (EST)

I can't discuss about the splitting anymore. Sorry. And thanks for what you said for me Hylian King. So, do you think that it'll be better to talk more about both the character and his species origin? That's what I meant by "mixed article" by the way.--Prince Ludwig 07:36, 24 February 2012 (EST)


 * I think I should just do it already...if we don't need to discuss it. But if we do, where we should we talk about it since you guys don't answer in this talk page anymore?--Prince Ludwig 19:39, 25 February 2012 (EST)


 * If you really want to do this, I would strongly recommend writing a draft in the Zelda Wiki Sandbox, or make your own sandbox (User:Prince Ludwig/Sandbox) and show us when it's ready. As you know, every major change to the wiki has to have the support of the majority, so there's no guarantees that it will be accepted. But you are more than welcome to try if you really believe in this. 20:48, 25 February 2012 (EST)

That means I have to show what the Skull Kid article would look like in my Sandbox before editing. Alright I will.--Prince Ludwig 23:58, 25 February 2012 (EST)


 * There it is. Look at my Sandbox. So, what do you think? It talks more about both the character and the species of the Skull Kid, except the character infobox (which is the Template:UserCharacter). Maybe it is not "mixed" enough, but I did my best.--Prince Ludwig 02:13, 26 February 2012 (EST)


 * Yes, and the effort is much appreciated. I'm not going to lie to you, your work is going to need a lot of polishing before any of it can be used in this article. But, the more I think about it, the more I start to think you're on to something here, especially with that "background" section. With his own background, unique character traits, and important role in the plot, MM Skull Kid has great potential as a stand-alone article that we really aren't living up to right now. You know what? Maybe a split (just for Majora's Mask) would be something to consider after all. 19:34, 27 February 2012 (EST)

There's about two sections that talk about his background story centuries before his appearance in a game; the background and the theory about the Hero of Time and his descendant. But I'm still working on it to be perfect too.--Prince Ludwig 00:57, 28 February 2012 (EST)

Splitting MM Skull Kid
Despite the fact that a split was just rejected (I myself was against the split), I'm going to suggest that we dedicate an article specifically to the MM Skull Kid. I've always had this feeling, even when I voted against the last split, that there was something wrong with the way we dealt with Skull Kid on this wiki. The previous split was rushed and as a result I think a lot of people were turned off to the idea, but I think a split is something that we should seriously consider.

It makes sense to have the Skull Kids from Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess on the same page: their roles are about equal, they have little dialogue if at all, and as a result we don't know much about them except for their appearance. However, it feels wrong to stick the Skull Kid in MM, a major, fully-developed character, between the OOT and TP sections. It seems like this part of the article has been constrained so that it could fit in one section: it's just as long if not shorter than the OOT and TP sections, when really it should be much, much more developed. MM Skull Kid has a full personality, character traits, background, and a huge role in the plot. He's basically the main antagonist of Majora's Mask; Majora only comes into play right at the end.

For that reason, I think the Skull Kid in MM deserves his own article. He was given the spotlight in Majora's Mask, it makes sense for us to do the same. 19:40, 27 February 2012 (EST)


 * Unless we can still talk about the character being in OOT and TP, yes, it's a great idea. Took me long enmough to log in again because of that Cookie issue.--Prince Ludwig 00:53, 28 February 2012 (EST)


 * Hmm...I see your point. The only problem I had with the previous split was that it was done so hastily without any discussion, but like I said in the previous section, I didn't really have a problem with it. :P So for splitting the MM Skull Kid, I agree. :[ --Dany36 12:05, 28 February 2012 (EST)

So, can you show us how the article would look like in your Sandbox sometime? I'd like to see it.--Prince Ludwig 15:04, 1 March 2012 (EST)


 * I'm also all for an article dedicated to Skull Kid, the character. No one will deny that as an individual he deserves to be recognized as distinct from the race of Skull Kids, as per reasons mentioned by Hylian King above. Just throwing in my two rupees. 20:44, 1 March 2012 (EST)


 * And me too...formerly...*sniff*--Prince Ludwig 21:43, 1 March 2012 (EST)

I looked at your current progression of the split article. But let me say something before you keep up.

He is supposed to be the Skull Kid notable character, right? I assure you this isn't acceptable enough to say "it was implied to be the same person" or "it may be proven to be the same person from the other game" or something like that. Stating this kinda stuff about OOT and MM Skull Kid is getting old, it's proven two times to be the same person in the game. You can write it in the Theory section and write down something really special too (since stating that possibility alone is not good enough), but it'd be useless. There's no way the developers would say that they are different person. Guys, you should know, the Skull Kid was an interesting character to begin with, so Majora's Mask made him alot more interesting and made a background story of him that toke place several hundreds of years during the Unified Timeline before Ocarina of Time. As for Twilight Princess, it should be written down in the character article too. If yes, we shouldn't write that he could be the same Skull Kid (though I'm so sure it is him) in the Twilight Princess section (you can also write that he helps the Hero of Time's descendant, but it's as if the Skull Kid is the same person), but in the Theory section where there has to have something written that could prove to be the same person, like in my Sandbox.--Prince Ludwig 19:58, 5 March 2012 (EST)