Zelda Wiki talk:LinkXZelda

You know, I actually think that this explains quite a bit. Good read, nice job. --69.68.139.225 22:16, 26 January 2007 (CST)
 * Thanks! It's really good to receive input from others, especially such positive comments! I'm very glad that it makes sense for you, it's something I feel really strongly about. Thank you!!--Sagasaki 22:53, 26 January 2007 (CST)


 * Sweet, glad you guys got this worked out. Do you mind if we discuss/debate the article content here on the talk page? --PIE


 * But of course! Feel free!--Sagasaki 00:27, 27 January 2007 (CST)


 * Schweet. Starting with the background stuff;

PIE

 * For sake of my argument, have you played or familiarised yourself with AoL? AlttP?


 * In the Background History section, you suggest that most of the characters in most Zelda games are Hylian. This is not the case. By AlttP, the Hylains are long gone. ("Long before now, a people called the Hylians prospered in this land..."), the subsequent games chronologically (LA, LoZ, AoL, and OoX) do not even make mention of Hylians and cannot possibly contain them. TMC is quite specifically about "men" (the term "Hylian" is never used, "man" is instead, and the "Hero of Man" is an important background character), FS and FSA follow chronologically and, similarily, make no mention of Hylians.


 * In the section "The Legend of Zelda", you suggest that the series is so named to emphasize Zelda's role. That is incorrect. The series is named for the Backstory of AoL, begun "Link, the time has come when I must tell you the legend of Zelda handed down in Hyrule."

Sagasaki
Thanks for the argument! I'll see what I can do to hold my own :P

First of all, I did not state that the Hylians were the most common people, I simply stated that they were the most important. I know for a fact that they are often rare, but important nonetheless. And as to your quote:

(The series is named for the Backstory of AoL, begun 'Link, the time has come when I must tell you the legend of Zelda handed down in Hyrule.')

you state that Legend of Zelda was named for AoL, correct? How can that be true if the "Legend of Zelda", the very first game, was named and created before the Adventure of Link? And the 'legend of Zelda' is a legend concerning Zelda, is it not? If it wasn't, then why would the legend have the name Zelda in it?

Again, thanks for your argument, I'm glad that people are expressing their opinions!

PIE
In a strange move we have not seen from Nintendo since the late 80s, the story of LoZ was planned to include a sequel (AoL). The state of the Triforce in LoZ was unexplainable until AoL, the lack of the Triforce of Courage was unexplainable ntil AoL, the inclusion of Impa in the LoZ story was unexplainable until AoL, etc.

The "Legend of Zelda", as a Legend, is about the actual name Zelda, and why it was originally important in Hyrule. It was an essential plot element in the early games, one they chose to name the series after (As other games Nintendo of the time, ie Metroid, were named for plot elements).

As to the Hylains... now I'm confused as to the devlopment of your debate. Why did you mention the Hylians?

Sagasaki
For starters, I mentioned the Hylians because you did originally in your second point. And now I'm confused as to your development. You said "The "Legend of Zelda", as a Legend, is about the actual name Zelda, and why it was originally important in Hyrule." Well, where, in fact, did that name, Zelda, come from? It wasn't just a name randomly picked and chosen, it was based on the name of a character. And, if you don't mind, re-read "the Legend of Zelda" section, as I have added two more cited sources. The character of Zelda was named after the name of an actress, which also then named the series, says Miyamoto (the games ultimate creator). Also, you stated points about the Triforce and Impa. Isn't that going just a bit off topic, as I have never mentioned any of these in my article.--Sagasaki 12:29, 28 January 2007 (CST)

PIE
I meant to inquire why you added discussion of the Hylains into your article at all. I don't understand why they're imortant to your theroy if you know that not every Zelda/not every Link has been Hylian.

I mentioned Impa and the Triforce to show the plaaning involved in LoZ storylines, showing that a sequel had alwasys been intended and planned for. Which explains how LoZ could have been given the name of an AoL plot device.

Answers.com is not a canonical source. Its not valid in argument. Yes, I know the Miyamato named his princess after F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife; He took a name; asked a character on that name, based a Legend on that character, and then named the series after the Legend. No part of this process suggests the series was named to highlight a special role of the Zelda character.

Sagasaki
Ok, first of all, Link and Zelda, every one, are Hylian. We know this. If you want to dispute that, then don't argue at all. Even this Wiki states that every Link is Hylian ("In all games, Link is a Hylian, and, due to that, appears as a young man with pointed ears. He generally has the Triforce mark on the back of his left-hand. ".) and every Zelda is Hylian (http://www.zeldawiki.org/index.php?title=Princess_Zelda). I don't know where you got the idea that they were not. And then, your quote you made contradicts even yourself. You state:

"He took a name; asked a character on that name, based a Legend on that character, and then named the series after the Legend. No part of this process suggests the series was named to highlight a special role of the Zelda character."

Well, what you just said was that he based a Legend on Zelda, and named the series after that legend. Putting it together, that's saying he named the series after Zelda's legend. So how is it that the seriese is not highlighting Zelda's character? And who is in each game? Zelda. Who does Link attempt to save nearly every single game? Zelda. And so why are you so against the fact that the series may be named after her? And to tie all that together, what on earth does this have to do with the relationship of Link and Zelda? Keep in mind, it's not completely the character that is choosing the story, it is Miyamoto, the man behind the legend. You really think he has some other girl than Zelda in mind for Link, even if it dosen't show? Anyway, thats all I have tonight. Thanks for contributing! --Sagasaki 22:43, 28 January 2007 (CST)

PIE
Please stop using wikis as evidence. They are not sources of Canon. According to AlttP; "Long before now, a people called the Hylians prospered in this land...". The Hylains have died out by ALttP; thge Zelda of AlttP is not Hylains. Neither is the Link.

I never said that Zelda was unimportant to the series; I simply argued against your statent (in the article) that Zelda's importance was the reason fro the title. Yu made a false statemnt (unrelated to your main argument, but a false statement none the less) and I though to repare it.

I am not yet arguing against your ideas on the Link and Zelda relationship; I am aonly arguing against the minor errors you made in your devlopment. I have no grand purpose agianst your theory itself.

Sagasaki
Anyone care to step in? I've personally never seen a human Link or Zelda, or any other race of them for that matter. They always have the pointy Hylian ears, and even Miyamoto has stated that they are all Hylian... and if you honestly believe that the game is not named after Zelda, then I have no more argument for you. That is simply rediclous, and i'm sure there are others that would agree. So, lets try and keep the debate towards the relationships then. --71.110.12.2 07:43, 29 January 2007 (CST)

PIE
Hylians have Pointy ears. That does not, in any way, mean that everyone with point ears is Hylian. Canonical statements are more important then your interpretation of visuals and ALttP (which has a Link and has a Zelda) stats that the Hylians have died out. Regardless of what any wiki says, this is a closed case... And not that a Miyamoto quote would matter in this case... but can you prove he said that?

Now then... you wanted to check public opinion on the Zelda situation... let's go to the polls.

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