Talk:Human

Okay, in the recent games what was classically referred to humans and the race Hylians were universally described as "Human". So it's clear this shouldn't be considered a fanon name anymore. It's clearly official. However this includes all Human races, not just the ones with round ears. So we will have to sort this out on this page. 21:36, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Why aren't humans in the list of races of the Zelda Universe? Kdman64 23:28, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Is there any real lore to support a distinction between humans and what this wiki considers hylians? Or was this just a creative distinction made by some user(s) of this wiki? Seems like creative speculation misleadingly presented as factual canon. In Twilight Princess, members of Hyrule's predominant race, pointed and round eared, are all referred to as "humans", even Link. While the term "Hylian" comes up as well, it appears the two terms are used interchangeably. --Goomboy 02:19, 15 December 2011 (EST)
 * "Human" has also been used to refer to Sheikah and Gerudo. I believe there are other trives that it includes, but I can't remember them at the moment. However, the Wind Tribe is talked about as distinct from humans.
 * In any case, this article is not only fanon, but it contradicts canon. That's pretty unacceptable; we shouldn't be documenting and giving playtime to fanon ideas that are explicitly wrong. Does the Zelda encyclopedia give a name to the non-pointy tribe? For all we know, they are simply something like "Low Hylians".KrytenKoro 09:57, 15 December 2011 (EST)


 * Or that the non-pointy ears are simply Hylians that have a different-shaped ears, just in the same way people of the same ethnicity or tribe can and do still have different features. The round-eared people, unlike other tribes that you mentioned like Gerudo and Sheikah, don't seem to have any very specific differences from Hylians (eg. Gerudo are mostly female and are darker skinned, Sheikah are a special guardian race with a connection to the Goddesses.) Howeverm that is only my speculation, we don't have conclusive proof one way or the other that the round-eared are Hylians or not, and I agree that fanon, especially if it contradicts the lore, isn't really kosher for wiki content.  If it doesn't contradict, and is at least under a speculation tab, that is different.


 * What you said about humans makes sense. Ultimately, I think "Human" page should really just list and point to the various tribe articles of canon tribes that we actually know, Hylian, Gerudo and so fourth, perhaps in a trivia section of the human page, it can be listed that there are some round-eared humans in the games, and it is unknown what tribe they belong to or if they are their own tribe, as opposed to trying to categorize or name them, without the proper lore to back it up.--Goomboy 11:25, 15 December 2011 (EST)


 * It seems at least a few pages on this wiki follow the contradicted "humans are the round-eared ones" dogma, if I want to go about changing this by editing the various pages, do I need to run it by anyone on some main discussion page? If not, but I still need to provide my argument, do I need to post the same thing in the discussion page of every article I edit?--Goomboy 12:52, 15 December 2011 (EST)


 * Just because they're unclassified doesn't mean they should be discarded. They're still humans. I agree with everything else, though. And yeah, all you have to do is bring it up at Hyrule Castle... which you've already done. 18:25, 17 December 2011 (EST)


 * Updated the article so that it now covers the term "human" as it is presented in canon as opposed to fanon. Round-eared humans haven't been forgotten and get full description on this page, just appropriately haven't been classified as they have received no official designation in canon.  I know this is a rather drastic change, and I am sure there will be subsequent edits and discussion, but I hope this is a step in the right direction for this wiki page.--Goomboy 03:53, 22 December 2011 (EST)


 * I think it's more than just that. You did a fantastic job. Really, one could not have asked for much better. :)
 * The only gripe I had with it is the lack of references. As you may have noticed, we're pretty anal about that here. I went ahead and added some. Also, where is it mentioned that the Wind Tribe is specifically not human? 20:35, 22 December 2011 (EST)


 * Apologies about the citations, I will be sure to be more careful about that in the future, and thank you for adding some. I'm glad you approve of the changes though. :)  I hope my changes aren't too controversial, but I do think that this is a more logical treatment of the subject of "humans", based on what we do and don't know about them.
 * As for the Wind Tribe, I do remember dialog of a Wind Tribe member implying humans as being a separate and distinct party from themselves, but perhaps I shouldn't have been so quick to write that section just from memory. I'll try my best to find it, but in the meantime if you think it doesn't belong there, we can change it, and then change it back later when I find said dialog. Cheers.--Goomboy 22:05, 22 December 2011 (EST)

<!-- The elder of the Forest Minish. He has lived among humans for a long time. He knows where the four elements are. He has a twin brother in Hyrule's library.
 * TMC:
 * A Minish living in Minish Village. He speaks some human languages. He sees that Link is human with one look. He's a bit of a human enthusiast.
 * (other quotes implying Minish are not humans)

Not visible to the eyes of adults, they delight in making humans happy by hiding helpful items and Rupees under grass and rocks all over the world.

These Minish like humans so much that they moved from Minish Village into Hyrule itself! They try to make humans happy, but it sometimes backfires.

That's right! Even some human objects are portals to the Minish world! Those Minish may not look like much, but they are quite crafty!

This must be what the humans who built this mine used to get around in here. Maybe we should hop in.

Hm? What? After all this, you don't expect me to believe you're scared! There's nothing to be afraid of here! Come on, let's go!

Sweet jumping jellyfish, that was awful! Hey, kid, what are you smiling about? I knew it was madness to risk our lives in that rickety human contraption! From now on, let's just stick to our feet! Well, I mean...your feet.

The Minish certainly do seem to be curious about the ways of humans...

Have you noticed something odd about the Mountain Minish? They're just a little different from the Forest Minish, aren't they? There seem to be many kinds of Minish, just as there are many kinds of human. And...many kinds of hat, too. Mustn't forget the hats.

So humans made this mine long ago?

Well it's full of monsters now, kid, so watch your back!

Perhaps the humans who made this mine will have left some things we can use... After all, there's no reason to let good wares go to waste.

Why do you look so confused? Don't you understand what's going on?�

The elemental sanctuary exists between the human world and the Minish world. Here, let me explain with a little example: in a ham sandwich... the elemental sanctuary would be the ham between the two slices of bread! ...You've still got that look. Did I just make it more confusing?

Minish people are very interested in human ways. I think they watch the people in town very closely. They've probably been watching you, too, without your knowing it. Hey, Link, careful what you say and do when you think you're alone!

So there are three books that we're supposed to return, right? Link, I'm sure you can handle it! Don't get me wrong! I'd love to help! But I'm a great Minish sage! I don't understand your big, human ways! So...I'm counting on you!

Deep within the Minish Woods, you will find a place called Deepwood Shrine. Once, humans and Picori shared that shrine as a meeting place. I think it would be best if you started your search there.

I gather it's been quite some time since they last saw a human. ...What's that? You didn't understand what they were saying just now? Ah, yes. That was the language of the Minish. It's a little different from the dialect I am most familiar with. I'm afraid I didn't catch most of what they said myself. But perhaps there is someone here who understands your language. We should look around.

If you head outside from here, you can go see the mine the humans dug. But the boss doesn't let anyone go in there without permission.

The sanctuary is a strange place that borders the human and Minish worlds. The doorway to the sanctuary opens only once every hundred years. I believe the entrance is somewhere in Hyrule Castle.

It'll take me a while to rework your sword. In the meantime, you should track down the missing elements. One of them should be in the mine the humans dug. It's not far from here.

Once you infuse it with the power of the elements, it will become a sacred blade! The forest elder no doubt told you this part, but... If you want to infuse the sword, you must go to the elemental sanctuary. The sanctuary is a strange realm, trapped between two worlds. It is the bridge between the Minish world and the human world. The doorway to the sanctuary opens only once every hundred years! You'll find that door hidden within Hyrule Castle. Once the blade has been filled with the power of the four elements, you should be able to break the curse on your princess. I know you can do it. After all, you made short work of that human mine. Let me tell you about a shortcut you can use to get down from the mountain. You'll find it right in front of the entrance of the mine you just explored. Just follow that, and you'll be down in no time. Good luck!

That foul Vaati! What could he be scheming now? Link... I feel I owe you an explanation of what has happened. You see, Vaati and I are both Minish.

I was once a famous sage and a renowned Minish craftsman. Vaati was only a boy when I took him on as my apprentice. But...he became enchanted by the wickedness in the hearts of men. One day, Vaati took a hat I made for the humans--my pride and joy. It granted the wishes of its wearer. He put it on without permission...

You know the legends, of course. The gifts the Picori gave the humans... What you call the Picori Blade was the first of those gifts. The second... Well, you call it light force, but it is a source of limitless magical power. If Vaati were to get it now, it would be devastating. I came to the world of men hoping to stop Vaati, and I met you in the woods. But it seems we won't be breaking the curse on me anytime soon. However, with the sacred blade, we can certainly restore Princess Zelda. I'm sorry. All that has happened has been due to my own pride. My folly. I must rely on you, on your power, until we've put an end to Vaati.

Hm... I've never seen an outfit like that before. Are you a...human? Oh, my! It's been quite some time since any humans came here. My name is Festari. I watch the abbey, as well as the shrine to the north. You...seem to be having some trouble with our language, don't you? You could use a Jabber Nut. It will allow you to understand our tongue. You should be able to find one in the barrel house just south of here.

You retrieved the Earth Element from that fiend-infested shrine? Incredible!

Humans are amazing creatures. The elder is sure to be amazed, too.

So you've eaten the Jabber Nut and now you can understand us... The elder said that humans can no longer see us as they once could. It's amazing that you can see us.

This is where we cultivate Pico Blooms.

The Picolyte sold in the human town is made from the nectar of our plants. We sneak into town at night and leave it there for the humans to find.

We sneak our Pico Blooms to areas near where the humans live. Just having some of it makes you incredibly lucky. We're preparing for our next delivery right now.

We forest Minish are good at growing plants and making tools. The Minish Berries we grow here often contain items that please the humans.

Sometimes it's a flower seed, and sometimes it's a stone. We hide our lucky items in all sorts of unexpected places. But the real trick is making it tough for humans to notice!

Sometimes it's a flower seed, and sometimes it's a stone. We hide our lucky items in all sorts of unexpected places. But the real trick is making it tough for humans to notice!

I've been getting better at disguising things so that humans won't notice 'em! I love my job!

You've heard of travelers who find a Kinstone and get really lucky? Well, that's all thanks to items made by us Minish! You see, we thrive on making humans happy. It gives us energy. But we only do it in secret!

You've heard of travelers who pick up a stone and find something under it? Well, those items were actually left there by us Minish! You see, we thrive on making humans happy. It gives us energy. But we only do it in secret!

You've heard of travelers who pick up a stone and find something under it? Well, those items were actually left there by us Minish! We live for making humans happy, but we only do it in secret!

Our ancestors, the ancient Minish, used the portal between our worlds. It brought them into the human world, and they settled in this forest.

You fought all the monsters and took the Earth Element from the altar? You humans are amazing.

Do you know about Kinstone pieces? They're all the rage among humans now.

Hey, nice clothes... I want to wear human clothes, too!

That's it! I've decided!

When I grow up, I'm going to be human! ...I wonder how I'll do that...

There should be some Minish living here in this forest. Eh? Who are the Minish? Ah, yes, how silly of me! You humans call them "Picori," but they refer to themselves as the Minish! Strange how, in the world of humans, only this forest has kept the name... Anyhow, deep in the forest they built a tiny village, where many now live. But if we're to enter the village, we'll have to make you a touch smaller first. Look for a tree stump. Then, I can shrink you to the size of the "Picori."

Long, long ago, and then even longer before that... Evil creatures appeared in the world of humans. They were powerful, frightening beasts, and they created such trouble! But then the Picori came from the sky, bringing humans powerful magic. With the magic light force and the Picori Blade, the beasts were repelled. And the world of humans once more knew peace, thanks to the Picori. So as not to forget our gratitude, we hold this festival each year. Now, remember, little ones... The Picori only appear before good little children. If you only do bad deeds, you will never get to see them! So be good!

Only once every hundred years does the mystic doorway open. This is the door that links the human world to the world of the Picori. When this door opens, the Picori can enter our world. And guess what! This marks the hundredth year since they last appeared here! I'm sure something wonderful is going to happen at this festival!

They say the Picori bring happiness to all the humans they meet... I wonder when they will bring happiness to me...

The legend says that the power of light was given to humans by the Picori. I wonder, does it really exist? I mean, it's not like anyone's ever SEEN it.

Hey! Your clothes... You must be human! Oh, I just LOVE human fashion! I just can't help feeling that humans are more sophisticated than Minish. You know, I even think some other Minish feel that way, too...

These soldier statues here were built by the Minish ages ago to help humans. It's kind of a secret, but there's a switch inside that turns them on or off.

Hey, hey, hey! This is no good! No good at all! The humans have checked some books out of the library! Thanks to them, none of us can get back to Elder Librari... How will he get by all alone? I'm so worried... I'm sure the librarian knows something about where those books went... I wish I were big. Why, I'd walk right up and ask her where those books went!

We can't get up the shelf, because some human checked that book out! But at least we don't have to listen to Elder Librari's boring old stories!

I really like this house. This is the best place in this whole human town! I want to stay here forever.

It's so convenient to live in a human house as a Minish.-->
 * "In this tower dwell the people of the Wind Tribe. We left your surface world long ago to serve a greater duty. We now protect the gate to the Palace of Winds, where the Wind Element lies."
 * ST
 * "My goodness, pretending to be human is exhausting. Who knew that chancellor was just another word...for royal babysitter?!" (demons are not humans)
 * "Impossible...I've trained for longer than you can even imagine. How could a pair of human children defeat me?" (Lokomo? are not human -- is this Byrne?)
 * "Yes, we are humans. We have neither the power of spirits nor demons. But when we combine our strength...No one can defeat us!" (Spirits are not human)
 * "Humans always think that unless they say something, others won't hear them. Truth is, people talk just as loudly with their hearts...But because people have mouths, they don't pay attention to their hearts." (Cobble are not human)
 * "So you are the human Kagoron spoke of. I am the elder of this village! Thank you for your help. Now you are like a Goron to us all. I have heard why you want to see me." (Gorons are not humans)
 * TP
 * "Eee hee! That's much better! You humans are obedient to a fault, aren't you?" (Twili are not human)
 * "And what's with putting that temple so deep that humans can't swim there?! I swear, those Zoras..." (Zoras are not human)
 * "Human legs...too slow to catch monkeys..." (Monkeys are not human)
 * "Neither humans nor Gorons should make judgments based on appearance, I suppose..." (Gorons are not human)
 * "Wolves can see things with their senses that humans can't, right?" (Animals are not human)
 * "You cute little human. Husband told me you come. You want to look at mirror, uh?" (Yetis are not human)
 * FSA
 * "Ganon... This beast was once of the Gerudo... Once human. He was called Ganondorf!" (Gerudo are human)
 * TWW
 * "Once upon a time, long ago, the Koroks took on human forms, but when they came to live on the sea, they took these shapes." (Koroks are not human)
 * ALttP
 * "Cluck cluck... What?! You turned me into a human." (...Cuccos are not human)
 * OoS
 * "Goron or human, health is all that matters!" (Gorons are not human)
 * MM
 * "Did you memorize the code? If only you were human...then I could make you a Bombers member...Too bad!" (Deku are not human)
 * "I guess not...Once, we let some kid who wasn't human join our gang, and, boy, did we ever regret it! Sorry! But I'll teach you the code, just like I promised. I can tell you only once, though, so pay close attention! Are you ready?" (Skull Kid? is not a human)
 * "Atop the hill here in Ikana, no human presence is felt, except that of the parent and child living in the house with the waterwheel." (Ikana are not human)
 * Hmm...the Wind Tribe talks about leaving the surface world, and whenever humans are talked about, it's in context of the surface stuff...but it's not explicit, so I guess I was wrong about them being said to be distinct. Oh well. There's nothing definitive either way.
 * There is nothing to indicate anything about the Ho Ho or Zuna, either.
 * I think we can definitely assume that anything that isn't homonid isn't a human, but...if it's not on this list, then we don't have any explicit evidence either way.KrytenKoro 23:27, 22 December 2011 (EST)
 * Thanks Kyrten, looks like Wind Tribe is upgraded to "unconfirmed" and Gerudo to "confirmed." I should do a little more research next time. Also, for the quote about Lokomo and human children, yes that was said by Byrne, and it seem like they should almost be out, into Confirmed Non-Human, however to me its a very strong argument against the case that they aren't humans, but they aren't out, though its unlikely, so definitely up for discussion.--Goomboy 23:24, 23 December 2011 (EST)

Seperate note; where are the round-eared humans indicated to not have magic powers? Hylians are noted to have them in Link to the Past's instruction manual, but I don't of where in canon that round-eared humans have been described as not having magic. If its just a case of never seeing characters of this type using magic in the canon, perhaps just this fact can be mentioned, and that this suggests they do not have magic powers?--Goomboy 23:24, 23 December 2011 (EST)