Talk:Skull Kid

Few Issues with the OoT Skull Kid Article.
First, the Skull Kid transformation can't be compared to Stalchildren because it's already been established that Stalchildren are cursed soldiers. Although, this is what I also thought I think the evidence is against it. Two, the 3DS version changes it from kids to Kokiri, I'll grab the quote but don't have any text dumps at the moment. This might help the confusion.. --Smighty 09:49, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I propose we remove this entire "there is speculation" nonsense entirely. Speculation has no place in a Zelda Wiki article. Dekler (talk) 01:26, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. This article references theories and speculation far more than appropriate. Tag it with Cleanup template? I'm not really in the mood to make such extensive changes to an article. Champion of Nayru (talk) 01:46, 8 November 2013 (UTC)Champion of Nayru

Separate the character Skull Kid from the species Skull Kid.
I suggest we split the article on the Skull Kid CHARACTER that appears in Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess off from this article, leaving this one to detail the race as a whole. Skull Kid the character is a major antagonist/protagonist in Majora's Mask, and also appears in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. I'd say three different games as appearances is enough to warrant a separate article, especially for such a significant character to the Child Timeline. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 21:27, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
 * My sandbox is an idea of what I think the page should look like, actually. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 22:01, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, I think the page is ready to be split. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 00:02, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Move complete. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 00:17, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * To be frank, I don't see how this is much of an improvement. :/ The two pages have a lot of overlap and I feel having the information spread over two pages like that is more confusing to readers than anything.
 * Next time, could you please wait to see what others think about something before going ahead with it? You didn't give anyone the chance to have a say first and that's pretty important. It's a bummer if you spend time making a big change then find out the other editors don't like it and it ends up being undone. (Not saying that will necessarily be the case here, but it very well might be if the consensus is against the split). 02:06, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The only time Skull Kid has ever been more of a race than a character was in OoT. Personally I think that's just enough for one section, as every other appearance of Skull Kid has just been one, which even then, there's no telling whether the one in TP is the same one from OoT/MM. It just makes more sense all of them sharing an article. I have to agree though. To make a split, especially for a big and somewhat popular page, there would have to be a census before any effort is made. I also really think that the next time you want to propose a split or merge, that you suggest it before you go ahead with the sandbox. It would save a lot of time. 02:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I'll add that splitting may not be a bad idea, but I don't think this is the way to go about it. If anything, I think having an article specifically about Skull Kid in MM would be more suitable. It's justifiable by the fact that his role in MM is much larger than other games (and, consequently, the MM section is disproportionately big). Even though it's technically the same person as one of the Skull Kids in OoT (and possibly TP), that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be covered on the same page.
 * But that's another can of worms, I suppose. 02:17, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * My apologies for splitting it without getting the A-OK. I just feel that considering that the Skull Kid from MM is basically a pretty major antagonist for most of the game, it deserves its own article. He IS rather significant to the Child Timeline, considering he's interacted with two out of the three Links in that timeline, if it is the same Skull Kid in TP as it is in OoT/MM, which odds are it is. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 02:24, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I still think if we're going to split the article, the new one should be only about Majora's Mask, for the reasons I mentioned. It's not really a question of what "deserves" an article based on in-game facts. What matters is that we present our information in a way that's clear and makes sense to our readers.
 * In any case, please hold off on changing any links until we come to a group decision. 02:36, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * For things like this, especially articles of important characters, feedback is absolutely crucial. Also, it's a good idea to give it about a week before acting, as that gives people time to respond. (Silence is not consent.)
 * I feel like this was a hasty decision and needs to be reverted and assessed before we go forward. As mentioned before, there is a lot of overlap, and that defeats the point of having two pages. This isn't the first time this has been attempted, and it was agreed that the pages should stay unified in that instance. 04:24, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe we can definitely benefit from a split -- the TP and OoT appearances are basically anonymous generics, representative of the species, and can be safely covered here, while the MM Skull Kid is a strikingly individual character. I think the overlap can be fixed by removing the TP section from the Character page, and then toning down the OoT section to much briefer summaries of the Skull Kids that are met, maybe like a single sentence saying that the Skull Kid first met Link in the Lost Woods and did one of three sidequests with him. The non-canon appearances should be on the Character page only, as they are clearly cameos of the MM Skull Kid. Once that's done, the only overlap we have is that the OoT section from the tribe page will have a quick summary on the Character page, and the MM section from the character page will have a quick summary on the tribe page.KrytenKoro (talk) 14:34, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * That makes an awful lot of sense. :) 21:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I support Kryten's approach whole-heartedly. It was actually what I had in mind. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 21:13, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Great! In that case, we (the staff) think we shouldn't link to Skull Kid (Character) just yet, but keep working on it until it's complete. You can also work on the main Skull Kid page in your sandbox, and then afterwards if we all agree on it, we can put it all together and add all the links and stuff. :)
 * For next time, just know that you can have more than one sandbox. And with a big article project like this, it's better to bring it to completion in the sandbox before publishing it on the wiki, rather than have an awkward in-between phase like this (especially if it's a highly read article). It's not a written rule, but it is good practice. We're planning on writing some editing guidelines about this kind of stuff soon so new editors like yourself aren't left in the dark. 21:35, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

New Split Consensus
So after some consideration, I believe it would be good now that a new consensus be held on whether this page should be split. The last one was full of discussion and compromise making, making it harder to determine everyone's agreement on it. For that reason, I feel a new consensus should be made. For this consensus, please just add only your thoughts on the matter. Should this page be split and the Skull Kid from Majora's Mask get his own page?

I personally don't think so. Skull Kids have only appeared as a race in OoT, and every other appearance has been singular. It makes more sense to me that they share a page for that reason. As a race, there is not much to write about them. There is also no telling whether the Skull Kid in TP is the same as the one from OoT/MM, there's only theories on this, which we've been phasing out now. I can however see how a split might work, as the Skull Kid from MM is a major character. But I feel that keeping the page as is would be better off in the end. 02:35, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm in favor, primarily because he's such a major character in the game in which he appears. Princess Hilda only appears in one game and is a Hylian (or the Lorule equivalent, that is), but we don't have here on the same page as "Hylian". She and Skull Kid I'd say are equally important.
 * tl;dr I agree with the split idea.--I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 03:00, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I have to pop in and say that A Link Between Worlds and Majora's Mask are not the same game, and we cannot treat them the same. There's little to say about the species to justify splitting it from the character(s), and to split would make it more difficult for the readers. "Splitting" Hilda from Hylian (as if that ever was a thing) wouldn't prove as a disservice to readers, as they can simply find what they're looking for by typing in "Hilda". We need to minimize the amount of times that we send readers on a goose chase to find the page they're looking for. 03:32, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I support a split because the page, as written, unhelpfully conflates the MM Skull Kid as representative of the tribe as a whole; his "possessed by an ancient demon" image is even used as the lead image. The article as a whole seems very unsure on whether it should be focusing on the Skull Kids as a race, and noting when a representative from MM appears, or focusing on the specific Skull Kid and mentioning that "hey, I guess he has family but whatever". There's probably a good way to do a merged article, but I feel this article is very much not it, so I feel that the coverage we have now (which, on its own, is good material) would be better served by being sorted into separate articles. It's kind of like if...hmm. If there was an article on the Transformers Wiki about the concept of Optimus Primes as an archetype throughout the franchise's multiverse, but 90% of the article was about what the Shattered Glass Optimus (who is an evil twin of the archetype) got up to. Or maybe, an article on Pikachu throughout the Pokemon franchise, but it really only focuses on Ash's Pikachu (who is noted as a very unusual Pikachu), leading new readers to think that every Pikachu is (or at least acts like) Ash's Pikachu.KrytenKoro (talk) 13:49, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Exactly. You summed it up better than I could, in a way. My idea on how the character Skull Kid's page would look is here. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 13:56, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

I would also support this split. However, I am not for your sandbox version, Darth Nightmaricus. The character who is named Skull Kid only appears in MM as far as I am aware. The OoT appearance is only a tease of information, and does not hold a lot of weight to support the argument. Unless someone can provide more proof.

To address the Skull Kid in TP, I suggest he stays on the Skull Kid Race article. He should then be put under a section called Notable Members, this could also include a small bit of info about the OoT Skull Kid that you give the Mask, and some info about the MM Skull Kid, with a link to the main article.

Also, Darth, please don't be so rude to add tl;dr to a person who has a different opinion then your own. This is generally unnecessary and is only negative input. You clearly read over Kyten's addition, even though it contained just as much if not more information. -- 19:54, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Um, the Skull Kid in OoT is confirmed to be the one in MM. The MM one even mentions that Link reminds him of "that fairy kid that taught him the song in the woods". So yeah, they're the same character. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 23:25, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


 * That is the tease of information I was referring to... I'm generally neutral on the idea, so if that is enough information to go by, so be it. We might want some other opinions on this as well, specially if the split is going to be approved. -- 00:29, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Can we use a Support/Oppose system for this decision, please? --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 22:34, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, this is meant to be passed via consensus, not vote. I wouldn't dismiss the discussion yet though. 23:34, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Puppets
On the official HWL site it has updated to show Phantom Ganon and Skull Kid. Interesting thing to note, one new screenshot shows the skull kid attacking enemies with the Puppet that the Skull Kid from Twilight Princess has. the screenshot shows hes even playing the Ocarina while the puppet is attacking, similarly to how the skull kid in TP uses his trumpet. I know this game isnt considered canon by the fandom at large, but I thought it was a bit of interesting info and wanted to share it. Ixbran (talk) 10:52, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
 * That info, along with the rest of his moveset, should be added to the HW series section of the Skull Kid page. 20:26, 8 October 2015 (UTC)