Talk:Dark World

The Golden Land, now the Dark World, reflects a person's self right? Link turns into a rabbit (not sure why that is) and the Link in TP turns into a wolf. Is it possible that how Link and the Dark World in this game and Link and the Twilight Realm signifies the Twilight Realm and the Dark World are the same place? Perhps Ganondorf accompanied the Twili on their assault on the Golden Land in the first place that was mentioned in TP? ZeldaGirl96 14:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well... it is stated in ALttP that Ganon created the Dark World as a twisted form of the Light World, located within the Sacred Realm (I don't have any exact quotes, but that's basically what was said). The Twilight Realm isn't in the Sacred Realm, nor (as far as we know) created by Ganon. It's an alternate dimension that all these Twili were banished to a while back. I could be wrong, but that's why I think it's not exactly possible. 14:44, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * In Oracle of Seasons, Onox mentions that he was summmoned from the Dark Realm. Just thought I should point this out.

--Felicia's Champion, 23:19, 14 July 2008 (EST)


 * Yeah, the Twilight Realm was a place the Twili were banished to, while the Dark World is a twisted Light World. Maybe the Twilight Realm was based of ideas from the Dark World? 13:54, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Dark World and Twilight Realm may be the same place.
The Dark World and the Twilight Realm might be the same place due to the fact that these are the only places where Link undergoes a change to an animal form. In "Link To The Past", Link is transformed into a rabbit in the Dark World. In "Twilight Princess" Link transforms into a Wolf in the presence of Twilight. The reason the transformations where different may be because of Links age. In a Link to the Past, Link was young (at least under 10) and in Twilight princess he was young adult (aground 17-20) Nasoka 20:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)NasokaKewe


 * Yes according to theorists and most people they are the same place, however it isn't 100% guaranteed. People's opinions vary, and as this is an encyclopedia, I think these pages should not be merged. 03:48, 19 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The Twilight Realm is its own world, whereas from what I understand from the article, the Dark World is what became of the Sacred Realm when Ganon entered it. Besides, the Twilight Realm probably predates Ganon by hundreds of years.... Jimbo Jambo 06:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Evil Realm
Evil Realm redirects here, and the Sacred Realm article says that Ganon was sealed within the Sacred Realm (which itself is also this, the Dark World). However, at the end of OoT, I recall the sages using the term "Evil Realm" specifically, not Sacred Realm or Dark World, and referring to it as a "void," which describes neither. I think the Evil Realm is another place completely, and that it's essentially...nothing, a void. If that's so, then should it get its own article, separate from this and Sacred Realm? Jimbo Jambo 06:31, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Potentially, yes it should have its own article. However, I'm not sure what factual information (if any) could be written in such an article, other than the quote you mentioned. Also, while Evil Realm exists as a redirect, nothing actually links to it except for the link you just added above. So I'd say that essentially it may as well either be deleted entirely, or else get a brief mention in a "Trivia" section here. 18:58, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Not much can be said about a world with nothing in it, but my argument is that as it is its own world and has no more connection that we can see to the Dark World than any other world, a mention of it here isn't really appropriate. So I say either make a short article explaining that it's the void to which Ganondorf was banished and eventually escaped from, or just mention it on the Ganon article (actually, just checked and it says Sacred Realm there too, which should be fixed anyway) and like you said either delete the redirect or maybe even redirect it there. Jimbo Jambo 19:32, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, now I'm confused. A quick search shows two prominent mentions of the Evil Realm; reference 7 in the Rauru article links "Evil Realm" straight to Dark World, and at the end of this section of the OOT article is the sentence "...the evil realm that had once been the Sacred Realm before Ganondorf's taint". This needs to be cleared up and standardised, as there are other mentions of Evil Realm that don't link here. I have to say, I'm not fully convinced by your reasoning that the Evil Realm is some completely independent place, never mentioned before or again? It sounds a lot more like a synonym for the corrupted Sacred Realm to me... 19:45, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I didn't realize how widely believed it was that the Evil Realm is the Dark World. Obviously I see problems with this idea and agree it needs to be standardized.
 * Let's look at Rauru's Quote. He describes the Evil Realm as a void, or at least describes a void within the Evil Realm, whereas the Dark World is basically a dark and scary version of Hyrule, right? I also don't think it makes a ton of sense for the sages to seal Ganondorf within his own paradise; he strives his whole life to control and shape the Sacred Realm for his own desires, and as punishment gets locked inside and gets to keep it all for himself? Not likely. Assuming the Evil Realm is the Dark World and a tainted Sacred Realm, I can't imagine what the sages could possibly be thinking by locking up the Great King of Evil within their most sacred place rather than trying to claim it back; I would actually assume that they did claim it back, at least for some time, since, what, is the Golden Land spoken of in legends really supposed to remain a twisted universe of pure evil throughout the entire series? I suppose that's possible but...hard to imagine. Jimbo Jambo 20:20, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

The Dark World page should definitely NOT be merged with the Sacred Realm page in my opinion. In the Japanese, "Dark World", "Evil Realm", "Dark Realm", "Underworld" [in Adventure of Link] and other places are all the word "Makai". This word literally means Demon World, and means any territory under the controll of a Maou [Demon King]. Ganon is called a Maou in every single Zelda game [and no one else is], and thus, the "Dark World" is just ANY territory Ganon controlls. In A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, it's the Sacred Realm, but that by no means proves that all Dark Worlds/Makais are the Sacred Realm. Erimgard 20:31, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I never supported this merge either. Since you have resources for, state the differences on the page and remove the merge tag. 02:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the general consensus here is not to merge, so I'm going ahead and removing the template. 08:17, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I beg to differ. There are only three games in which there actually is a Dark World. And in two of them it is stated specifically that it was the Sacred Realm. That is two out of three. And in Four Sword Adventures the terrain is very similar to that in A Link to the Past and the Dark World functions in a nearly identical way. So it is the same Dark World. Meaning that it most likely is the same place and they should be merged. 18:25, March 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Though it is mentioned to be the Sacred Realm, I think it shouldn't be merged. I think they deserve separate articles. I can't remember timing of when people are told in game that it is the Sacred Realm, but could merging these articles act as a spoiler to some people (Similarly to if we had merged Sheik and Zelda)? I think they are broad enough to have there own pages, stating they are one and the same with the Sacred Realm in OoT and aLttP on those pages. I'm with Erimgard on this. 19:47, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


 * A spoiler is a good enough reason not to merge I guess. However, Erimgard's reasoning is not correct and is itself a spoiler. That should be removed from the page. Not only that, it is only a theory. Stating a theory to be fact right at the top of the page is not acceptable. 20:03, March 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Spoiler victory. This article is in need of work though, which we'll have to discuss further. 05:04, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Upon refreshing my memory with said games, I have come to the conclusion that it is not a spoiler to merge them. The fact that the Dark World and the Sacred Realm are both the same place is never hidden from the player. It is mentioned almost immediately in A Link to the Past. The player is barely is even aware of the Dark World before being told it was a resting place of the Triforce.
 * "Link, it is I, Sahasrahla. I am communicating with you across the void through telepathy... The place where you now stand was the Golden Land, but evil power turned it into the Dark World."

- Sahasrahla


 * It isn't a spoiler. 20:06, June 11, 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation page proposal
I think it would be better if "Dark World" linked to a Disambiguation page. The page could contain links to new pages for the Dark World in FSA, ALttP and OoT (and perhaps ST). The theory about TR being SR can be moved to the TR page. Some other bits of info can be moved to the trivia sections of the respective games. What do you think? Zeldafan1982 12:09, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Reorganization and Update Info
Honestly, this page has been needing improvements for a long time. One thing thing that will definitely be changed about it is the use of "Yami no Sekai", "Maou", and whatever Japanese terms do not apply to the English translation of the games. That sort of thing can go into the trivia section. There should be a section for each the game the "Dark World" actually appears in. Having a section for a game that merely mentions it creates unnecessary clutter. There will be as history section for each of the games (which I am limiting to ALttP and FSA) and a section for mentions of the Dark World or Realm or the like in other games so not to leave anything out. If anyone has any suggestions, let me know. Noble Wrot 13:50, 19 January 2012 (EST)
 * I agree with your suggestion. I'd just like to say that OoT should be included in the "main" section since the OoT Dark World is the one shown in ALttP. Zeldafan1982 14:37, 19 January 2012 (EST)


 * It's not very good if you simply remove information and fail to add a trivia section that would otherwise contain that information. The page is now lacking mention of Ocarina of Time (where it is called the Evil Realm) and ANY mention of it's Japanese names, which are important to understanding the Dark World, as it has actually been mentioned as far back as Zelda II, I think. The realm is also mentioned in the Oracle games too. I personally preferred the old article, even if it was a bit of a mess, it at least offered more information rather than mostly retelling the events of ALttP.
 * I think this is one page that should probably be arranged by timeline, because it's a pretty major area and key to the history of Ganon. I fail to understand the logic of removing games that mention it from the history, as that's fairly key to the history of it, after all. There is absolutely NO NEED to censor information from the article.
 * Aside from that, the page is also lacking information on the geography and the mirror nature of the world. It's now pretty much just a retelling of the events of A Link to the Past. It's all nicely cited and everything, but I do not feel particularly informed about the Dark World by reading this article, just informed about ALttP. 15:44, 27 July 2012 (EDT)
 * I also think that the Oracles and the AoL should have a mention (in the "other appearances" section.) A trivia section about the Japanese terms would be nice too. The OoT Dark World is mentioned indirectly in the history section.
 * Another thing is the nature of the Dark World. The one in the Oracles and in AoL is probably the same. I haven't played FSA but from what I have read I'm not sure if it's the same or not :/ Zeldafan1982 13:48, 28 July 2012 (EDT)
 * The first thing that needs to be done is that the Dark World stage needs to have it's own page. The stage is very different from the Dark World proper, because they both exist independently. As for the ones in Oracles and Zelda II... given Hyrule Historia, both games occur after ALttP, so it is likely they are referring to the same one, and it's possible that it can return or that it simply did not disappear overnight. The Dark World appears in the possibly-not-canon Inishie no Sekiban because Ganon comes back briefly, so that needs a mention too... I'll have to find some time to add all this stuff soon. 18:50, 28 July 2012 (EDT)
 * it's possible that it can return or that it simply did not disappear overnight. Both of them are valid theoretical possibilities I guess. I'd just like to point out that page 97 of HH has "the end of the dark world" as its title. It would be nice if HH elaborated a bit more on the issue.. Zeldafan1982 10:43, 29 July 2012 (EDT)
 * I will have to check HH translations more carefully before going into that. I do think maybe there is a distinction between "makai" and "World of Darkness", in that it's possible to have other makai that are not necessarily the Dark World. Either way, there's room for a theory section to contain all that. 13:36, 29 July 2012 (EDT)
 * If you guys think it's missing information, feel free to add it in! That's one of the wonders of a wiki. :) --Dany36 17:14, 28 July 2012 (EDT)


 * I am planning to, of course! I'm just a bit concerned because I'm sure some of that information was removed needlessly. It did need a reorganization, but it has had a bit more than that done. 18:50, 28 July 2012 (EDT)


 * Allow me to disagree with the recent adjustments made to this page. The additions can be very misleading. The only events surrounding the Dark World in OoT are what is mentioned about Ganondorf corrupting the Sacred Realm. A lot of what is mentioned about the Dark World in the Hyrule Historia does not happen in the course of OoT's plot; it is only covered in the book. Also, the Imprisoning War does not happen until generations after OoT's story, so it should not be covered under an OoT section. In other words, a lot of the events surrounding the Dark World of ALttP's are all connected to its plot, so it should be covered in ALttP's section. The connection to OoT should definitely be mentioned, but we should really leave timeline discussions out of this; I just wanted to covered a single Dark World as it in exists in a certain Zelda game because it is the same Dark World. When this same Dark World becomes prominent other future Zelda games, we can change things up a bit, but this is all about A Link to the Past, and it is relevant to its appearance in that game. That why I include "History" in the ALttP section, and it is complete separate from the Four Swords Adventures' Dark World.


 * Now, not all of your additions were disagreeable. There were some nice changes to wording, and I definitely agree that trivia should be included. I was going to get to that, as I made set aside all the trivia in the same spreadsheet in which I rewrote the Dark World article. It was a lot of trivia, and it was really repetitive, so it was a lot to work through. Trivia is not my favorite subject on ZW because some of it is questionable without confirmation, so I admittedly avoided it in favor of what I thought was more important and practical as content of the page. I honestly just never got to it. As Dany said, you are free to add trivia on your own, and you can always check the page history should you want to grab something from there. All-in-all, the page is incomplete and in need of images and perhaps some templates. The infobox could be filled out, with the inclusion of the Dark World theme. There are some things to be desired yet, but I will stand by why I said. The format of the page was fine as it was, and the OoT section was excluded for good reasons. Noble Wrot 23:07, 27 August 2012 (EDT)


 * I haven't made any adjustments myself yet, but the fact that the Sacred Realm (Golden Land) because the Evil Realm (Dark World) is enough of a reason in my opinion that it should be mentioned on this page. It obviously doesn't require a lot of detail, but it does require mentioning. It's where the Dark World began, timeline-wise. It seems you agree somewhat, but yeah, I think THAT counts as a historical relevance to the Dark World seen in ALttP. While I agree that the one in FSA is not exactly the same, their similarities and differences need to be pointed out, also. I think the article could focus on geography and nature of the world more than simply reciting the events of ALttP, however. 09:23, 28 August 2012 (EDT)

If you guys must know, the Sacred Realm was corrupted when Zelda with her Hylian people she recruited sealed Ganon with the Triforce within it, turning it into the Dark World, directly after the defeat of the Hero of Time in the Downfall Timeline ending of Ocarina of Time. Then some short period of time, the Imprisoning War began, which would lead to A Link to the Past. However, in the Adult Timeline, the Sacred Realm was already corrupted because Ganondorf entered the Door of Time after the Master Sword was taken, then Hyrule itself was the Dark World as confirmed in Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker. Ganon was already an Evil King unlike in the Downfall Timeline when he was king after winning the Triforce. The Hero of Time got lots of time to be stronger and he was able to defeat Ganondorf and save Zelda. The six sages sealed Ganon in the Sacred Realm, which was already corrupted once Link turned eighteen.--Prince Ludwig 00:44, 28 August 2012 (EDT)


 * Whoa, hold up. According to OoT itself, the Sacred Realm had already become the Evil Realm well before the end of Ocarina of Time. Given that the events only split once Link loses against Ganondorf (before he turns into Ganon), we can assume this has already happened also. Perhaps not the Dark World we see in ALttP, more a "void" as mentioned in Ocarina, but it had definitely started. Almost all the events of Ocarina of Time had already occurred by the time Link is defeated in the third timeline. Note that Ganondorf is already described as a "Demon King" (King of Evil) in Ocarina in the first fight with him, too, so he had that title as well. I think you're getting the placement of Link's defeat confused: he loses against Ganondorf as an adult in Ganon's Tower. It's a bit more obvious if you can see the page itself rather than just the text, as it has an image of Link fighting Ganondorf. As for Hyrule itself being the Dark World, I don't know where you are getting that from. Yes, Hyrule becomes his realm, but it is not described as a Dark World (or "makai") as far as I am aware. I will have to check the Hyrule Historia translations again, though. 09:23, 28 August 2012 (EDT)

Even if it's a few days late, I'm trying to say that the Downfall Timeline has a sightly different story from the Adult Timeline. Yet, it cannot be denied the Child Timeline has the same story. In the Downfall Timeline, Twinrova returned, even Volvagia renamed as Barba, meaning they weren't faced hundreds of years earlier. It can be said that the Dark World (despite being the Sacred Realm) could be the same Hyrule from the Downfall Timeline where the Hero of Time existed which was turned into the Dark World by Ganon turning the Sacred Realm into a world of evil. There was an icy temple at the dark counterpart of Lake Hylia, which I imply to be where Link did not clear the temple and let the Zoras freezing to death. There is also a forest that would probably turned dark probably by Phantom Ganon being remained over there for a long time. But that's just me. About the hero's adventure in the Downfall Timeline being different would make sense on how the timeline's future turned out and how it really follows the events of Ocarina of Time. It was said the Seven Sages Zelda was with, after her Triforce of Wisdom was taken from her and the Triforce of Courage was taken from Link, were her people she recruited.

They would be the same Hylian Seven Sages who return to make another seal during the Imprisoning War a few years after the defeat of the hero. And a few characters, even the relatives of the Royal Family of Hyrule were related to the Seven Sages in A Link to the Past. Now then, after A Link to the Past, it was time to check out other countries where the Hero of Time's distant relative met the people from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask in the Oracle series.

The fate of Hyrule's downfall was to be avoided. In Ocarina of Time, Link leanred about his true destiny in the Adult Timeline probably because a few characters are aware of the same danger that occured in the Downfall Timeline which would definetely happen in the Adult Tineline. But Link prevailed: he defeated Ganondorf and saved Zelda, even awakened the other five Sages from different tribes and defeated most bosses who won't return back in centuries later unlike A Link to the Past and its follow-ups where he failed to protect Hyrule.

It's a theory I made, also because I looked at the Zelda Timeline's picture, and it seems that most events of Ocarina of Time's Adult Timeline was longer than it was in the Downfall Timeline. It would mean that the final battle in the Downfall Timeline occured directly after Link turns 18 years old.--Prince Ludwig 13:06, 14 September 2012 (EDT)
 * There is no implication though in HH that the sages in the DT version of the final battle in OoT are different from those that we see in the game. Based on what page 90 says the branching occurs right before or at most during the battle, certainly not earlier. Also, the diagram should not be read very literally because then the CT branch would have to contain the final battle! Zeldafan1982 18:05, 14 September 2012 (EDT)


 * Volvagia was not "renamed" Barba, that's a translation issue, nothing else. In Japan it's always been Volvagia. And he was revived once, he could be revived again, that's not really an issue. Twinrova presumably got revived as well. Reincarnations or being revived from death occur fairly commonly throughout the series, after all. And I own HH and I can confirm what Zeldafan says; the split occurs at the final battle between Ganondorf and Link in Ganon's Tower. Nothing else prior to that is any different, and the events afterwards are not hugely different, except that Ganon obtains all three pieces before being sealed. You're adding your own spin on things that is simply not mentioned. I can only recommend you go read the translations found on Glitterberri's website, or wait to obtain the English translation of the book early next year. This isn't the place for theory anymore, given that we actually have it spelled out to us now. 19:09, 14 September 2012 (EDT)

Perhaps the Goddess of Time was responsible for Link's second chance...

Just to say it should be avoided to write that the split occured during the battle against Link and Ganondorf just to avoid confusion. Seriously, think about it. How would it turn out if the Downfall Timeline was everything like the Adult Timeline before Link's defeat? I read everything, and what about you fellas? It was said the Seven Sages of Hyrule sealed Ganon in the Sacred Realm. They were seven instead of six (Saria, Darunia, Ruto, Impa, Nabooru, Rauru) lead by Zelda. They can't be the same sages from Ocarina of Time but the people she led herself. The Imprisoning War did not occured a century or plus. It occured a short period of time after Ganon's seal within the Sacred Realm, so they can be the same Hylian sages. If you look in Hyrule Historia, the Imprisoning War occured during the Era of the Hero of Time's adult era, where the Seven Sages are old.

And one more thing, a few of our theories we had on the Wiki, even Mario's, were read by Nintendo's developers. Especially, there had been many interviews asking the questions based on our theories and they were answered. Let's use this as an opportunity to find an answer to the question.

Ending this conversation of theories, seriously, think about that the Downfall Timeline is litterally an alternate history from the Adult Timeline, even if it is or not.

On-topic: I think the article is okay. Except that in the History section, the two game's titles should be replaced with the eras' name instead.
 * Since the branching occurs right before or during the battle, the OoT sages were also available (since they had been awakened) in the DT version of the battle. Perhaps the wording is not very correct, maybe it should say "the sages led by Princess Zelda". Zeldafan1982 06:28, 15 September 2012 (EDT)

In my theory, the OOT sages weren't awakened (except for two), but... meh. Still the same, but Seven Sages is the most specific one. Yeah, you can write "the sages led by Princess Zelda".--Prince Ludwig 06:10, 16 September 2012 (EDT)