Talk:Buzz

Bazu
As with many ALttP enemies at the moment, this name is unofficial, so I suggest moving it, along with a number of others, to their Japanese names. This enemy is known as Bazu, or "Buzz", which implies that its actually an insect and not even a reptile. There's a bunch of other misnamed enemies, such as Rabbit Fang (which is called Toppo), Reaper (Hyu), Cyclops Fish and a number of others that basically have fanon names right now. It'll take awhile asking for permission to move each one, but I figured I might as well just move all of the unnamed enemies (I've checked, the obscure ones that DO have official names are ones like Pengator, Freezor, Pikit, Zirro and Swamola) to their Japanese names. I'm a little nervous about just doing it all at once because I don't want to make a fuss, but I don't think it should cause too much controversy, and asking for permission for each one would take a bit too long. Fizzle 16:17, 6 October 2011 (EDT)


 * An alternative for the Dark World enemies would be to merge their pages with their Light World counterparts. That way we can avoid calling them by their Japanese names and still remain accurate. For the other ones I guess we wouldn't have a choice. Thoughts?
 * Also, could you make a list of all the enemy pages that need to be moved? Just to give everyone an idea...
 * By the way, although it may not look like it sometimes, we do appreciate you trying to improve this wiki's accuracy. You'll have to forgive our slowness in these matters. It's all a part of trying to get things done on a wiki :P 20:41, 10 October 2011 (EDT)


 * I like HK's idea (about merging Dark World counterparts and such). And I also agree about possibly giving us a list of all the enemies that have the "wrong" names. You've posted so many that I've lost track, haha. XD Dany36 20:47, 10 October 2011 (EDT)


 * I don't like this idea, because I don't think they were meant to be "counterparts", more that they just use the same AI routines. This enemy is a perfect example, because its not a rat at all, and has no connection to it, other than it generally acts the same. There's an enemy called Pirogusu that has more viability as a counterpart to the Rat (the name seems to be a reference to the Japanese name for the Rat, and its a bit like an aquatic rat) even though it doesn't act exactly like one. Likewise, the Taurus enemies are much more like Pig Warriors, also known as Moblins. Moblins use the same movement routines as the weak Soldiers in Hyrule Castle, does that mean they are counterparts? What ARE counterparts exactly? Moblins, Hinoxes, Ropas, Wizzrobes, they're all enemies that have appeared outside of the Dark World in many games, usually more often than not. Just because an enemy is obscure and uses the same behavior patterns as another doesn't necessarily mean they're related. On the other hand, something like a Stalrope is DEFINITELY related to a Rope, simply by name alone. The concept of a "counterpart" in the Dark World is very vague and I don't think it necessarily applies to individual creatures. Most monsters appear in both worlds at some point. There are a very small number that only appear in one or the other, so surely the idea of a counterpart is moot if 99% of creatures don't have them? Fizzle 21:05, 10 October 2011 (EDT)


 * I thought it was pretty simple. If they behave in a similar manner and spawn in the exact same spots as an enemy does in the Light World, that's plenty to go on, no? I could think of four enemies this concept would apply to off the top of my head: Cyclops Fish, Eye Keese, Lizard (arguably), and Stalrope (which is already on the Rope page under "Skull Rope"). That may be only a fraction of the enemies that need to be moved, but that doesn't make the concept any less valid. I still think we should do it if we can. 07:40, 11 October 2011 (EDT)


 * Where does it stop though? I know merging can be tempting, but it seems needless, as its based on a vague, arbitrary concept of a "counterpart", which may be moot anyway. What's wrong with having seperate pages? Why does it only apply to A Link to the Past? Dinolfos behave exactly the same as Lizalfos in OoT, but they have a seperate page (as they should). Ghinis behave almost exactly like Poes in most games. Even Fokka behaves a LOT like an Iron Knuckle. Also, just for clarity, they do not spawn in the same spots, they are in a different location. They appear only in the top floor of Thieves' Town dungeon, while Rats primarily live in sewers. They also do a lot more damage than a Rat, and can take more hits to defeat, and don't drop many Rupees like Rats do. Also, as for Eye Keese (which is a fan name again, it should be Chasupa) seem to be related to Patra, and also they behave very different in their appearance in FSA (not sure if thats mentioned on the page), AND they appear in both the Light World and the Dark World, so, as I say, the idea of them being "dark counterparts" like in Twilight Princess is a false one. I suspect if Bazu ever appeared again, it would also not act exactly like a Rat. Their similar behavior is more down to them saving space by using the same AI behaviors. Guays and Keese act the same in OoT, so this isn't unusual. May I suggest you let me soup up and improve these enemy pages before we consider merging anything? There's a lot of info thats wrong or lacking.
 * May I also add, that lets assume I am a player of ALttP, and I run into these obscure enemies in the Thieve's Town dungeon, and go here to find out what they are. Lets say I'm looking for the Stalrope, and I go here Gallery:Enemies in The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past and find... nothing. Its not there at all. While I could find that one by looking at the Rope page due to their similar appearance, this one, and many of the others would be more confusing. I would say that Stalrope should be merged as it is since Ropes aren't that common or varied, and POSSIBLY Ku (Cyclops Fish) COULD be merged (as they are called Zoras in the guide, but I think this was a mistake). As for the rest though, I think it would be counterproductive, as we would simply be giving information about an enemy to people who already know about them, assuming a connection that is arbitrary, and nobody else would know their names or be able to find them without already knowing, which removes the very point of an encylopedia. Mention of the similarity between Rats and Pirogusu (which is named Aqua Beetle for some bizarre reason at the moment, thats incorrect too) and Buzz/Bazu on the Rat page seems enough to me. Fizzle 09:58, 11 October 2011 (EDT)

My main problem with this is that we're using Japanese names on an English wiki. That was why I was trying to suggest alternatives such as the merging before going through with it. But you've made it pretty clear that if we want to be 100% accurate there aren't any alternatives.

Let's make a list, shall we? Feel free to add any that I've forgotten:


 * Merge Cyclops Fish with River Zora or move to Ku (to be determined).
 * Split Hoba or Hover from Water Tektite.
 * Split Hokkubokku from Geldarm.
 * Split Zazakku from Daira.
 * Move Lizard to Bazu or Buzz.
 * Move Reaper to Hyu.
 * Move Aqua Beetle to Pirogusu.
 * Move Rhinobird to Kyune.
 * Move Rabbit Fang to Toppo.

Before we go through with this, does anyone have anything to add to this conversation? This entire discussion has basically only had two voices, and that is by no means a consensus. 19:35, 12 October 2011 (EDT)