Talk:Man from Curiosity Shop

Same Guy?
I know that many think that the Curiosity Shop Guy runs both the Shop and the Trading Post. However, during the Kafei and Anju quest, it is possible to look in the Shop from the backroom and see the Curiosity Shop Guy in there. At the same time, the Trading post is being run by the normal guy. Since a person can't be in two places at once, the Curiosity Shop and the Trading Post are not run by the same person. This is not a big step for the characters to be different people. The Malon counterpart was split into Cremia and Romani.--Matt 14:55, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Start the Kafei & Anju quest. When Kafei gives you the pendent, talk to him again and do what he says. After nightfall, but before 9PM, you can look into the Curiosity shop and see the Curiosity Shop Guy there. Now run to the Trading Post and go in. The normal guy is in there.--Matt 02:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Given that the Trading Post Guy's absence still correlates with the opening of the Curiosity Shop, it's more than likely that they are one and the same. The Kafei & Anju evidence you presented is likely a development error. -- Fire Keaton 10:37, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Accuracy tag
Exactly what here is being disputed? I don't notice anything off about the article. --Ando (T) 02:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well the last edit was:
 * 03:02, 5 May 2008 Matt (Talk | contribs | block) (1,817 bytes) (This article is written in a way that assumes an unconfirmed fact to be true, adding accuracy tag)
 * So... I dunno. maybe the thing with the link between the Curiosity Shop/Trading Post, maybe the connection with Kafei, maybe the reference to the Fishing Hole Guy in OoT... When the tag's added it should really be stated here what the issue is. --Adamcox82 12:24, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I said it twice in the above section. There is insufficient evidence to say that the Curiosity Shop Guy and the Trading Post Guy are one and the same. And as I said, it is not that hard to believe that they are different people. Cremia and Romani are different people, and they are both a Malon counterpart.--Matt 12:58, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Cremia and Romani are based on two different models of the same OoT character, Malon in the Child time and Malon in the Adult time. A better comparison would the three models of the Gorman Brothers which are based on Ingo, but they would still be vastly different variations from one another. One could argue that the Curiosity Shop Guy and the Trade Post Guy are based on two models of the Fishing Hole Guy in that one is bald and the other isn't, but if you were to compare the Trade Post Guy to the Fishing Hole Guy in Child time, one would take notice of certain variations that extend far past the graphical improvement from OoT to MM. The Trade Post Guy's hair was modified to look more like a wig than actual hair. Romani and Cremia are differentiated by time, the Gorman Brothers are differentiated by wardrobe, but the Curiosity Shop Guy and the Trade Post Guy are simply differentiated by a wig and a pair of shades. Though it doesn't outright show that they are one and the same, the game pretty much implies it to a fault. Anyways for them to be two separate characters would no purpose for any of the game's sidequests, in contrast both the Romani Sisters and the Gorman Brothers do serve a purpose. -- Fire Keaton 10:45, 2 June 2008

The Curiosity Shop Guy gives Link the Keaton Mask, and the Express Letter to Mama, and tells Link where to go to help Kafei. He is not a minor character. Also, there already is concrete in-game evidence that the Curiosity Shop Guy and the Trading Post Guy are not the same person. Most-likely, it is a joke on the developer's part. Make strong suggestions that two characters are the same but they actually aren't. Developer jokes like that are a very common thing in video games.--Matt 17:12, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Not battling here, just curious: What is this "concrete in-game evidence". I don't remember any. :O --Ando 17:21, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No offense Ando. But do you even read the talk page before posting? It's at the top. No, it isn't a development error. It has to do with the character scheduling. That is a very hard thing to mess up on a semi-major character, especially when there are only a couple dozen or so scheduled characters to work with.--Matt 17:35, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Haha, not really. But in this case yes. :P I don't know, really it could go either way. I do find it a little hard to believe that they would have made a scheduling mistake considering the amount of detail that went into the game, but... I suppose a mistake has to be made somewhere. :/ Nothing's perfect. So this is one of those things that, without further evidence, I'd say is up to personal belief. Perhaps we should decide what goes into the article, though. Maybe a "it's strongly suggested that they're the same person, but given blah blah blah, they may not be"? --Ando 17:42, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That's the reason for the tag. The article was written assuming them to be the same. Even though it can't really be proven either way. I knew I should not have rewritten the article without an agreement here.--Matt 17:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Well if you feel like editing it with something neutral, go on ahead. Unless you want to wait for others' input? --Ando 17:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Mentioning both possibilities is probably the best middle ground to go with. But I'd still be willing to bet ten bucks that the developers would confirm them as one and the same. It's almost as unlikely as Beedle and the Rarities Merchant being two different people. --Fire Keaton 01:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't believe I forgot this! These guys have completely different personalities. The Trading Shop guy is nicer. He likes Goron Link and Zora Link. But the Curiosity Shop Guy tells them to come back "Half past never!" If these guys are the same person, then that is one serious case of split-personality.--Matt 06:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Running a pawn shop and a general goods store requires two different attitudes. A persona mask if you will. Just because the guy acts one way in the Trading Shop and another way in the Curiosity Shop doesn't necessarily mean that he has a split personality. It could just mean that he wears a different face for each part of his life. It's kind of like real life actually. You change your attitude depending on the context of the situation. -- Fire Keaton 20:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * While there is some truth in what you said, it does not adequately explain the personality differences. Those differences are far too extreame. Dissociative Identity Disorder (also known as having a split personality) is a condition in which a single person displays multiple distinct identities or personalities, each with its own pattern of perceiving and interacting with the environment. Among the signs is having multiple mannerisms, attitudes and beliefs which are dissimilar to each other. This is an exact match. It is highly unlikely that this is one person "acting" like two different people. It either is two people, or one with a split personality.--Matt 00:39, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not acting, it's common social phenomena. You don't talk to your co-worker as you would your kid. I suggest you watch Nicholas Cage's "Lord of War" and read Gladwell's "The Tipping Point". People can have drastically different behaviors depending on the context. Shady business requires a shady attitude. You can't treat customers who comes to a pawnshop the same way as customers who come to common vending shop. The two businesses attract very different clients. You see those iron bars in the Curiosity Shop? They're there for a reason. The Curiosity Shop Guy and the Trading Shop Guy being one and the same is MM's further demonstration of the intricacies in these seemingly everyday people. I'd say it fits the whole mask theme of Majora's Mask rather well. -- Fire Keaton 0:45, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I know what your saying. But your taking the idea way too far. While this would be an interesting solution, it just is not the case. Nintendo would not waste time on making a person who acts like this. There would be too many conditional statements to write. Like if the character is here then he says this, and if there he says that. That adds up to quite a bit of waste, especially for a nonessential character. Making them two characters would make all the coding shorter and less complex. It is not hard to imagine what Nintendo did. This is a game, not the real world. Games made around the year 2000 were not that complex. Newer games might have something like this, but it just isn't Nintendo's style. Nintendo likes to save as much space for sounds and graphics on it's games as possible. They're not going to write an unnecessarily complex code for a nonessential character.--Matt 04:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * You make it sound like character is something people program in games, when the truth is that it dictates what they program. Everything I described doesn't need to be programmed in the game, it just needs to be on the mind of the programmers. Everything you encounter in a game is basically dolls designed to give the illusion of a story. In fact that's all there is to a video game code. There's no actual value in losing all of your hearts, it just triggers when the game shows a death scene and a "game over" screen. All of the "characters" in Majora's Mask are dolls with scripted programming of what to display depending on the action or inaction of the player. There aren't too many "conditional statements" because it is all written down for each character of what to in the the three day cycle (the programmed device that in fact makes it possible there not be too many "conditional statements"). Ideas are conveyed by what the game is programmed to display. The Trading Post Guy is programmed to appear whenever the player enters the Trading Post before 9 PM, afterwards another character model with different dialogue but the same function is to take his place. Meanwhile at 10, the player has access to the Curiosity Shop, were by he encounters the character model of the Curiosity Shop Guy. Both models strongly resemble one another and given the time discretion in their assigned encounters, it strongly implies they are supposed to represent the same character. It isn't programmed that they are the same character, it is programmed to imply that they are the same character. Hence for them to be one and the same would be no more complex, program wise, than if they were different. But idea wise, for them to be one and the same places more emphasis on the experience of the game than if they were to be different characters. If the latter is the case, it never had any bearing plot wise in any of the side quests of the game, making it a non-essential plot device. Quite frankly Occam's Razor shreds the likelihood of it being the case for that reason alone. -- Fire Keaton 22:55, 7 June 2008


 * Okay, hold up here. I used to be all for the "They're the same dude" argument, but to test a theory I pulled up Majora's Mask just now. I thought "Hey, if the Trading Post guy IS the Curiosity Shop guy (...with hair), then talking to him should add him to my Bomber's Notebook, yes?" So I went and completed the challenge to get the Notebook. I went and talked to the guy and... nothing. He wasn't added. I'd say that that's pretty definitive proof (I mean, if they were the same guy, why would he only be added to the Notebook SOMEtimes?). --Ando 04:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * A simple answer! Perhaps we could end this loop. It is streaching things to say that they are the same person now. I guess that there was concrete in-game evidence after all. Okay, not exactly concrete but really strong evidence anyway. Putting this together with the fact that they are both in their respective buildings at the same time from 6:00PM to 9:00PM and that they have different personalities, it is highly unlikely that they are the same person.--Matt 04:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * How is it "highly unlikely"? Because the programmers possibly forgot to change the placement of the Curiosity Shop Guy in a scripted event based on the time of day? I'm sorry but you can't audaciously make that claim especially when you haven't sufficiently refuted the evidence that I provided. The way I see it, either scenario is possible. Just edit the article to include them both theories and be done with it. --Fire Keaton 11:13, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll make revisions. When I'm done, check it out and see if it is neutral enough.--Matt 15:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm working on it right now. The article is going to be much bigger. For reasons of being able to differentiate who is being referred to, I'm making a section for the Curiosity Shop Guy and one for the Trading Post Guy. After that will be a section explaining the possibility of them being the same person. There will be some references. It might take a little long for me to finish it. First I'll make the article Trading Post Guy and have it redirect to this article. The redirect won't work until I am done!--Matt 15:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)