User talk:Dermotmacflann: Difference between revisions
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:Broad pronunciations are often conventionally used in scholarly publications, including dictionaries and encyclopedies. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English Here] is what Wikipedia uses, for example. Some of the subtleties [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_conventions_for_English vary from publication to publication], but the basics are generally well-established: Short O is broadly {{IPA|ɒ}}, even though its actual realization ranges between <span class="IPA">[ɔ]</span> (RP and AuE) and <span class="IPA">[ɑ]</span> (GenAm) depending on accent. The history of pronunciation within the same accent can also complicate this, as only a few decades ago, even RP speakers genuinely said <span class="IPA">[ɒ]</span>, and most dictionaries still use this symbol to stand in for the short O phoneme. The purpose of all this is to aid the international reader who is practiced in a conventional form of English, even if English is not necessarily their native language. This learnt convention is overwhelmingly based on either RP, GenAm or AuE, so an international broad transcription encompassing all three is logical. Of course, this doesn't necessarily cover conventions of English that preserve details that the primary accents don't (such as in Scottish English, Hiberno-English, Welsh English, etc.), but the distinctions these accents make are mostly regional and tend not to be taught internationally, which is why we indicate Urbosa as {{IPA|ɜːrˈboʊsə}} rather than, say, {{IPA|ʌrˈboːsə}}. If a specific character uses a specific narrow pronunciation that can be identified as Scottish, Hiberno, etc., then that pronunciation can be listed additionally. But the in-game accents for ''Breath of the Wild'' are overwhelmingly either GenAm or RP, and conventional IPA transcriptions for covering ''both'' accents are already readily available and documented. Indicating pronunciation as {{IPA|ɜːrˈboʊsə}} already implies both RP {{IPA|ɜːˈbəʊsə}} and GenAm {{IPA|ɝˈbosə}}, and because of longstanding media exposure, people around the world can already recognize and correlate both pronunciations as variations of the same word (mutual intelligibility). Until these accents no longer form part of the continuum of one united intelligible international language, and as long as the readers are from around the world and overwhelmingly trained in established conventions, broad IPA transcriptions will continue to play a necessary role. - [[User:Dermotmacflann|Dermotmacflann]] ([[User talk:Dermotmacflann|talk]]) 10:09, 22 May 2017 (UTC) | :Broad pronunciations are often conventionally used in scholarly publications, including dictionaries and encyclopedies. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English Here] is what Wikipedia uses, for example. Some of the subtleties [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_conventions_for_English vary from publication to publication], but the basics are generally well-established: Short O is broadly {{IPA|ɒ}}, even though its actual realization ranges between <span class="IPA">[ɔ]</span> (RP and AuE) and <span class="IPA">[ɑ]</span> (GenAm) depending on accent. The history of pronunciation within the same accent can also complicate this, as only a few decades ago, even RP speakers genuinely said <span class="IPA">[ɒ]</span>, and most dictionaries still use this symbol to stand in for the short O phoneme. The purpose of all this is to aid the international reader who is practiced in a conventional form of English, even if English is not necessarily their native language. This learnt convention is overwhelmingly based on either RP, GenAm or AuE, so an international broad transcription encompassing all three is logical. Of course, this doesn't necessarily cover conventions of English that preserve details that the primary accents don't (such as in Scottish English, Hiberno-English, Welsh English, etc.), but the distinctions these accents make are mostly regional and tend not to be taught internationally, which is why we indicate Urbosa as {{IPA|ɜːrˈboʊsə}} rather than, say, {{IPA|ʌrˈboːsə}}. If a specific character uses a specific narrow pronunciation that can be identified as Scottish, Hiberno, etc., then that pronunciation can be listed additionally. But the in-game accents for ''Breath of the Wild'' are overwhelmingly either GenAm or RP, and conventional IPA transcriptions for covering ''both'' accents are already readily available and documented. Indicating pronunciation as {{IPA|ɜːrˈboʊsə}} already implies both RP {{IPA|ɜːˈbəʊsə}} and GenAm {{IPA|ɝˈbosə}}, and because of longstanding media exposure, people around the world can already recognize and correlate both pronunciations as variations of the same word (mutual intelligibility). Until these accents no longer form part of the continuum of one united intelligible international language, and as long as the readers are from around the world and overwhelmingly trained in established conventions, broad IPA transcriptions will continue to play a necessary role. - [[User:Dermotmacflann|Dermotmacflann]] ([[User talk:Dermotmacflann|talk]]) 10:09, 22 May 2017 (UTC) | ||
I see. My concern, however, was more about the accents used. There doesn't seem to be a page on this wiki dedicated to explaining the "accent" to use, which is probably why I've seen crazy pronunciations like the letter A being pronounced like a short O for some names on here. I think it was for Volvagia. Of course, it doesn't even have a pronunciation on here anymore. But still, if we are to ignore the in-game accent that influenced the pronunciation, there should be a help page explaining that, and explaining that the pronunciation we give must be an accentless-as-possible blend of the main three accents. | |||
As for the in-game accents, you really only have one real accent...plus Zelda. You've of course got Zelda's English accent, and then everyone else's American accent. King Rhoam and Princess Mipha both have pretend English accents for some reason. King Rhoam can't even say his own name correctly in the accent he tries to use. And then they have the Gerudoes at least saying the ''names'' from their own language in their own accent, but only like half of them. I think they say "Naboris" and "Nabooru" in the Gerudo accent, but not "Urbosa" or even "Gerudo". I don't think the voice director cared much at all about the pronunciations OR accents in this game. | |||
Finally, I feel like giving more than one pronunciation should be possible. I'm sure it could be beneficial for some names. Also, more importantly, I feel that giving most-likely-meant-to-be-pronounced-like-this pronunciations should be a thing. There are names that may never be spoken aloud in-game (most names, probably), but people come to this encyclopedic website in an attempt to LEARN how to correctly pronounce the names. Why can't this encyclopedia be allowed to let them learn? Behind the Name is a great website for learning pronunciations (of which there can be multiple) and etymology. If a name's origin is only speculated by scholars, then it will simply say so while still providing that bit of potentially correct scholarly knowledge. It's better than nothing, and so long as it's clearly stated to be a highly researched guess (or guessES), then there should be no problem. It would only serve to help people seeking knowledge, who don't have the required combination of English and Japanese linguistic knowledge to figure it out for themselves and end up having to go to a forum and get incorrect information.[[User:Schwarzorn|Schwarzorn]] ([[User talk:Schwarzorn|talk]]) 22:28, 24 May 2017 (UTC) | |||
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